Different manifestations of Charisma

[Zanniej]

I've got quite the imagination myself, and every stat is pretty self explanatory. However, with the Charisma stat I have some doubts and am wondering about your take on it. I'll explain a couple of situations that I already figured and am open for different takes on my view of things, as well as different situations.

Good character with high charisma
This character is handsome and likeable. He/she can persuade people into doing things they'd not do quite as soon otherwise ( You there, neutral person! I know you don't like kittens, but I'd like you very much if you'd save them! ). Just being around this person makes you a bit happier
Stereotype: Angelic Aasimar

Neutral character with high charisma
This character can be quite likeable when he/she needs to be, but quite intimidating as well. He/she can be quite manipulative, and is good at talking people into doing what he/she needs. That, and talking him/herself out of things.

Evil character with high charisma
I've got two takes on this.
First take:
This person is intimidating as hell. Just being around this person makes you uneasy and slightly scared. You'll steer clear of this person!
Stereotype: Blackguard
Second take:
Though you realise this person is evil, the lure of his/her beauty makes you abandon your beliefs, and against better judgement you follow this person.

Really interested to hear what others think! What are different ways of being really charismatic?

EDIT: Low charisma is interesting as well!

[Rhifox]

I've always viewed charisma as never so much about getting people to like you, but about getting people to notice you. Diplomacy is about getting people to like you, it's a skill. But Charisma is your natural ability at getting people's attention. Someone who is highly charismatic is not necessarily nice and pleasant to be around, but they are certainly going to draw attention for good or bad. I think Qara from the original NWN2 campaign to be a perfect example of that. She had high Charisma, and that translated to her being an annoying, arrogant, loud-mouthed brat, hardly the kind of person you'd be inclined to 'like' being around.

Charisma is force of personality, self-confidence. A character with high charisma could be handsome and likeable... or they could be ugly and loud.

Manipulation? I'd chalk that up to Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate rather than Charisma. Having high Charisma certainly helps with manipulating people, because you have more natural self-confidence and understanding of social interactions, but even a low Charisma character can be highly manipulative (char sheet wise, it'd be if they train up the social skills, giving them a working knowledge of how to work people even though they aren't naturals at it).

So yeah, I'd chalk Charisma up to ability to get attention, while social skills are the actual method of shifting people's opinions of you (positive or negative). And of course Intelligence and Wisdom help in how one goes about applying their charisma as well. The idea of a loud braggart is IMO a high Charisma individual with low wisdom. He can get attention, but he isn't wise enough to know when attracting attention is good or just annoying, therefore the attention he does get is negative. Likewise, someone with high Charisma but low social skills can get attention, but he doesn't know what to do with it once he has it.

A low charisma person is forgettable. He doesn't attract attention to himself, and he's awkward in social situations (without dedicated training of his social skills, at least). He's not likely to be insulting, terribly ugly, or rude. You just don't think about him at all. A low charisma person, to me, is the standard adventurer who stands off in the corner in a tavern or by the campfire, and says nothing. You don't notice that he's there, and you won't notice when he's gone. He's nobody.


So with regard to alignments, it really has less to do with their methods of interacting and more about the intent of their interactions. A good person is likely to use their place in the spotlight to help others. They advertise themselves not for their own gain, but for the gain of those they want to support. While an evil person is all about me, me, me. They can be scary and intimidating, loud and arrogant, or handsome and charming, but ultimately they are exploiting the people around them to benefit themselves.

[kleomenes]

I think thats actually a pretty good way to look at it myself. Its easy to forget the roll of the social skills in persuasiveness and the like

[thids]

I don't think that's a good way to look at charisma at all. The stereotype of a dwarf is loud and rude, yet dwarves are generally not charismatic. I can think of numerous other examples. Saying you need charisma to be noticed in fact sounds silly, as I can think of ways when that high charisma would then be detrimental which makes absolutely no sense. Someone with 6 charisma would be near invisible by those standards, which also makes no sense and actually gives the player of that character a free pass not to roleplay that 6 charisma, when they should feel obliged to do so. While charisma is about how others perceive you, it's also one of the main attributes you as a player have to roleplay, whether it's high or low.

Qara isn't a perfect example of your theory, it's a perfect example of how horrible Obsidian was when it came to translating D&D FR concepts into their game. Along with a faithless ranger who still received spells, a dwarf monk and that abomination of a "paladin"

[Rhifox]

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

"This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived". To me, that description implies self-confidence and self-esteem, not caring what others think of you. Personal magnetism, persuasiveness, and ability to lead don't have a natural 'positive' definition to me, I don't read those as 'people like you' (though people liking you is a potential outcome). Magnetism is attracting attention, persuasiveness is convincing people to go along with your will, and leadership is inspiring others to follow you. All of these a high cha person is capable of regardless of whether they are loved or hated by those around them.

High charisma is never a drawback, because the character can choose the manner in which they use it. Just like a fighter is not going to use their full strength all the time on every task, and an Intelligent character is not necessarily knowledgeable (he has the capacity for knowledge, he's got a good head, but until he puts points into Knowledge skills he doesn't actually know more than anyone else). Intelligence, Wisdom, and the development of social skills are all part of using Charisma effectively. Without them, it's just raw potential.

Also, the stereotype for a dwarf, to me, is gruff and impersonable. The ones that are loud I would equate to having higher charisma than others, higher force of personality.

Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma.

This also implies to me that Charisma is about recognition of the self. Ergo, higher Charisma is chiefly greater sense of the self. In other words, the higher the Charisma, the stronger the self-concept.

Someone with 6 charisma would be near invisible by those standards, which also makes no sense and actually gives the player of that character a free pass not to roleplay that 6 charisma, when they should feel obliged to do so.

RPing it should entail being nearly invisible. Adventurers gain notoriety, fame, wealth. A person with low charisma should get none of that. Lords and kings overlook him in favor of more personable adventurers, bards regale tales of the heroes with charisma, not Mr. 6Cha. The party leader gets the estate and title, Mr. 6Cha might be lucky to get offered a place in party leader's retinue when the day is done. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the obligation for the 6Cha person should be to avoid being squeaky. He doesn't offer advice or plans. He waits to be told what to do.

I don't consider that a free pass, because it should come with the consequences of being forgotten. Limited rewards, little political power, left behind in plots and schemes.

From Player's Handbook:
"A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript."
"A character with High Wisdom but low Charisma knows enough to speak carefully and may become an advisor (or 'power behind the throne') rather than a leader." (which is what I said about low cha people still being capable of manipulation)
"A character with high Intelligence but low Charisma may be a know-it-all or a reclusive scholar."

[thids]

You are disregarding everything else in favor of "invisibility" and "ability to be noticed".

From Player's Handbook:
"A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript."

A rude person is noticed by default in many situations. And that tends to stick in peoples memory, if the situation is correct. Unless you are implying that characters are forbidden from remembering that one rude person who insulted them at a fancy dinner because the offender had a low charisma score? Doesn't really make much sense and that right there negates the way you view charisma completely.

Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma.

This also implies to me that Charisma is about recognition of the self. Ergo, higher Charisma is chiefly greater sense of the self. In other words, the higher the Charisma, the stronger the self-concept.

No, not really? You drew that conclusion from the one side because it fits your theory. We can flip that around and claim it is about recognition of "things that are not itself" just the same.

Also, the stereotype for a dwarf, to me, is gruff and impersonable. The ones that are loud and rude I would equate to having higher charisma than others, higher force of personality.

I do not know where you are getting your stereotype of a dwarf, but generally rude (or at the very least the appearance of being rude to people from other cultures) and especially loud is what fits perfectly into a stereotype of a typical dwarf.

Someone with 6 charisma would be near invisible by those standards, which also makes no sense and actually gives the player of that character a free pass not to roleplay that 6 charisma, when they should feel obliged to do so.

RPing it should entail being nearly invisible. Adventurers gain notoriety, fame, wealth. A person with low charisma should get none of that. Lords and kings overlook him in favor of more personable adventurers, bards regale tales of the heroes with charisma, not Mr. 6Cha. The party leader gets the estate and title, Mr. 6Cha might be lucky to get offered a place in party leader's retinue when the day is done. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the obligation for the 6Cha person should be to avoid being squeaky. He doesn't offer advice or plans. He waits to be told what to do.

That is one way to roleplay it. Though not a good one I would say. Better one would be: Someone with 6charisma doesn't get any of those things not because they are invisible, but because they are so repulsive, in one or numerous ways, that people intentionally avoid giving them those things if there is an option to do so. Someone with charisma between 8 and 10 could be "invisible". By your definition, that someone who is so repulsive would have high charisma instead of 6 charisma. Doesn't really make much sense.

[Rhifox]

A rude person is noticed by default in many situations. And that tends to stick in peoples memory, if the situation is correct. Unless you are implying that characters are forbidden from remembering that one rude person who insulted them at a fancy dinner because the offender had a low charisma score? Doesn't really make much sense and that right there negates the way you view charisma completely.

Not really, because I don't view rudeness as a trait unique to low charisma. Both high cha and low cha people have the capacity for being rude. I would view the high cha person to be the kind of person whose insult you'd remember long after, while the low cha person is a small incident that is forgotten about by the next day.

A rude low cha person to me is the person who fails to observe niceties or makes a derogatory comment that leads you walking away while mouthing 'jerk'. Of course you remember them in the moment, but it's typically forgotten just as quickly. While a rude high cha person is the kind of alpha bitch harassment that hounds people for months or years, that causes great personal hurt and social ostracism.

5th ed Cha definition:
"Charisma measures your ability to influence others and the strength of your personality. A high Charisma suggests a strong sense of purpose, whereas a low Charisma indicates a less self-assured personality."

No, not really? You drew that conclusion from the one side because it fits your theory. We can flip that around and claim it is about recognition of "things that are not itself" just the same.

Which isn't flipped at all? Recognizing that things are not itself still means that you recognize that the self and others are distinct entities.

"Saving Throws
The DM commonly asks you to use Charisma when you make a saving throw to resist certain magical compulsions, especially those that would overcome your sense of yourself."

I do not know where you are getting your stereotype of a dwarf, but generally rude (or at the very least the appearance of being rude to people from other cultures) and especially loud is what fits perfectly into a stereotype of a typical dwarf.

Player's Handbook:
"Dwarves are slow to laugh or jest and suspicious of strangers, but they are generous to those few who earn their trust."
"Dwarves say, 'The difference between an acquaintance and a friend is about a hundred years.'"

By your definition, that someone who is so repulsive would have high charisma instead of 6 charisma. Doesn't really make much sense.

Doesn't it? The kind of people that fit the typical definition of a high cha person are some of the most repulsive people around, in my experience. The popular people at the head of crowds and cliques are very often not particularly likable, they get where they are by being good at attracting people to themselves and making their followers afraid of acting against the crowd. It often entails building dozens of shallow relationships and not understanding how you actually affect the people around you (which is how Player's Handbook describes a high Cha with low Int+Wis character). The player's handbook describes high cha people with a lack of the other personality stats as con artists (high cha low int), attracting crowds of people exploiting you for their own gain (high cha low wis), or insensitive and shallow (high cha low int low wis). High cha on its own, without the other stats or skills to back it up, is pretty repulsive, as I see it.

Player's Handbook
"A character with High Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident. A character with high Charisma but low Intelligence can usually pass herself off as knowledgeable, until she meets a true expert. A charismatic character with low Wisdom may be popular, but she doesn't know who her real friends are. A charismatic character lacking in both Intelligence and Wisdom is likely to be shallow and unaware of others' feelings."

[thids]

A rude person is noticed by default in many situations. And that tends to stick in peoples memory, if the situation is correct. Unless you are implying that characters are forbidden from remembering that one rude person who insulted them at a fancy dinner because the offender had a low charisma score? Doesn't really make much sense and that right there negates the way you view charisma completely.

Not really, because I don't view rudeness as a trait unique to low charisma. Both high cha and low cha people have the capacity for being rude. I would view the high cha person to be the kind of person whose insult you'd remember long after, while the low cha person is a small incident that is forgotten about by the next day.


A rude low cha person to me is the person who fails to observe niceties or makes a derogatory comment that leads you walking away while mouthing 'jerk'. Of course you remember them in the moment, but it's typically forgotten just as quickly. While a rude high cha person is the kind of alpha bitch harassment that hounds people for months or years, that causes great personal hurt and social ostracism.

You posted a quote saying that low charisma characters may be rude. As in rudeness can be the trait of that character through which their low charisma is presented in roleplay. Or is rudeness just put in that quote for no reason whatsoever since according to you it can also be the main trait through which high charisma is presented? A high charisma character CAN be rude, no one is saying that they can't. But them being generally rude is not something through which their high charisma attribute is represented. In the underlined part you are implying, once again, that others are obliged to forget a rude person if their charisma score is not high enough. You are spinning the argument in circles here.

No, not really? You drew that conclusion from the one side because it fits your theory. We can flip that around and claim it is about recognition of "things that are not itself" just the same.

Which isn't flipped at all? Recognizing that things are not itself still means that you recognize that the self and others are distinct entities.

It is flipped in the sense that my statement puts emphasis on recognizing other things exist, while you put the emphasis on recognizing the self when the reality of the statement is meant for both sides. Also note, recognizing the difference between "self" and "things that are not itself" does not necessarily mean that those with 0 charisma don't recognize the fact that they exist. At least that's the way it is worded, since you insist on quoting that specific rule and drawing conclusions from it.

I do not know where you are getting your stereotype of a dwarf, but generally rude (or at the very least the appearance of being rude to people from other cultures) and especially loud is what fits perfectly into a stereotype of a typical dwarf.

Player's Handbook:
"Dwarves are slow to laugh or jest and suspicious of strangers, but they are generous to those few who earn their trust."
"Dwarves say, 'The difference between an acquaintance and a friend is about a hundred years.'"

That doesn't exactly refute my original statement about dwarves.

By your definition, that someone who is so repulsive would have high charisma instead of 6 charisma. Doesn't really make much sense.

Doesn't it? The kind of people that fit the typical definition of a high cha person are some of the most repulsive people around, in my experience. The popular people at the head of crowds and cliques are very often not particularly likable, they get where they are by being good at attracting people to themselves and making their followers afraid of acting against the crowd. It often entails building dozens of shallow relationships and not understanding how you actually affect the people around you (which is how Player's Handbook describes a high Cha with low Int+Wis character).

No, it doesn't? Again, you have taken one possibility and you are now pushing it as some sort of universal understanding of the charisma attribute. Not understanding how you effect people around you does not mean you are rude by default. And again, there is your example of high charisma being detrimental to a character when viewed from your perspective. Note something else, I have never once claimed that high charisma = being likable. If the person at the head of a crowd or a clique isn't particularly likable, then they are at the head through intimidation or persuasiveness, all things you have in this very thread ascribed to skills, not charisma. There is a big difference between being repulsive and being "unlikable". For a high charisma character to be outright repulsive through one means, the means through which they present their high charisma needs to be on the level of a demigod.


Finally, through quoting all those things from the phb and drawing all those stretched conclusions, you neglected to quote the explanation of charisma itself

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Notice, there is no "or" in this definition. Charisma measures all of these things. Meaning if someone with high charisma is ugly for an example, they better make that up in another area. Or does being uuuuuuuuuuuuuugly also mean high charisma?

[Thorsson]

Good character with high charisma
This character is handsome and likeable.

I completely disagree with this interpretation. A good person with high charisma could be ugly, but have other aspects of their personality that could persuade people, such as charm, wit or simply that their goodness shines through.

People get too carried away by physical aspects.

[Steve]

http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/addre ... es-part-2/

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=78815#p78815

[Rhifox]

You posted a quote saying that low charisma characters may be rude. As in rudeness can be the trait of that character through which their low charisma is presented in roleplay. Or is rudeness just put in that quote for no reason whatsoever since according to you it can also be the main trait through which high charisma is presented?

It is one possible mannerism a low charisma character might have, that is what the quoted passage states. I did not say low cha people cannot be rude, I said that I view it as a level of rudeness that is low key. Being honest and refusing to sugarcoat things, ignoring social niceties, not getting up and greeting people, etc. I do see these things as ultimately forgettable.

I do not know where you are getting your stereotype of a dwarf, but generally rude (or at the very least the appearance of being rude to people from other cultures) and especially loud is what fits perfectly into a stereotype of a typical dwarf.

Player's Handbook:
"Dwarves are slow to laugh or jest and suspicious of strangers, but they are generous to those few who earn their trust."
"Dwarves say, 'The difference between an acquaintance and a friend is about a hundred years.'"

That doesn't exactly refute my original statement about dwarves.

"Slow to laugh or jest" doesn't refute 'being especially loud'?

I view dwarves as gruff, stoic, conservative clansmen and women who are focused on their families and their craft, people that are stubborn and difficult to get to know, much less befriend. They are rude, certainly, but loud? I don't equate dwarf culture with loudness. The idea of a dwarf as a loud, boisterous ale guzzler spending 16 hours a day in a tavern runs rather counter to what dwarves are supposed to be, in my eyes. Maybe it is the stereotype among gamers, but it's never been the way I've viewed dwarf culture. Even the source book says that the typical adventurer dwarf is an aberration that breaks from the stodgy, rigid culture dwarves come from.

No, it doesn't? Again, you have taken one possibility and you are now pushing it as some sort of universal understanding of the charisma attribute. Not understanding how you effect people around you does not mean you are rude by default. And again, there is your example of high charisma being detrimental to a character when viewed from your perspective.

I would consider high cha without high other stats to be detrimental, yes. Just like I'd consider most of the stats to be detrimental when taken just on their own. It takes multiple attributes acting together to make a character.

Also, I have not 'pushed some sort of universal understanding'. In all of my posts I have said that this is how I personally view it, what I feel is implied with the description, how it looks to me.

Finally, through quoting all those things from the phb and drawing all those stretched conclusions, you neglected to quote the explanation of charisma itself

I quoted it in my first response.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Notice, there is no "or" in this definition. Charisma measures all of these things. Meaning if someone with high charisma is ugly for an example, they better make that up in another area. Or does being uuuuuuuuuuuuuugly also mean high charisma?

I would think that being so ugly as to attract attention and make you stand out from the crowd to be representative of higher rather than lower, yes. Striking appearance does not necessarily mean good. I'd think ugliness is more likely to result in lower cha not because of the physical appearance itself, but because ugliness often leads to an increase in self-doubt and low self-esteem. Someone who is ugly but also remains confident and self-assured on the other hand might benefit from the appearance.

I'm not a fan of equating physical appearance to the attribute though. For me, a combination of strength, dexterity, and constitution would dictate appearance, because it's a physical characteristic, while cha is primarily a mental/social stat.


Anyway, I'm bowing out of this thread. The question was on how people view charisma, and I've stated how I view it based on my understanding of the way it has been described.

[Nomster]

Not really, because I don't view rudeness as a trait unique to low charisma. Both high cha and low cha people have the capacity for being rude. I would view the high cha person to be the kind of person whose insult you'd remember long after, while the low cha person is a small incident that is forgotten about by the next day.

A rude low cha person to me is the person who fails to observe niceties or makes a derogatory comment that leads you walking away while mouthing 'jerk'. Of course you remember them in the moment, but it's typically forgotten just as quickly. While a rude high cha person is the kind of alpha bitch harassment that hounds people for months or years, that causes great personal hurt and social ostracism.

I guess my character's insults should be remembered for years, huh...


I wrote a break down of all the aspects of charisma a while ago. I did not write so much about the negative aspects of high charisma but there are bits and pieces of it,
Subject: PSA: Playing your stats... is awesome.

I have a question: how do you people roleplay charisma?

I often see CHAR being roleplayed as physical beauty, and many characters have their CHAR numbers in their bios.

I can recognize when someone has beautiful features, but that doesn't make them attractive to me. Add in different cultures and sexual orientations and I feel that it's silly to try and reduce it to hard numbers. No matter how much charisma that lean, beautiful dancer has, he probably won't be able to seduce the baker who only has eyes to bodybuilders.

So I end with a really confusing stat... personally, my character has a 0 modifier in CHAR because his demeanor isn't particularly attractive or awe-inspiring (at least to a non-elf). I still roleplay him as being fairly pretty by human standards, since he's an elf.

Charisma can be portrayed as physical beauty but it is possible to have a character with physical flaws who has high Charisma. I suppose people connect it to physical beauty because it is the easiest way to reflect the stat. I have portrayed my high Charisma character as physical attractiveness but I did that mostly because... I never play pretty characters, so I wanted to try it!

Your comment of beauty is of course true, people vary in what they find attractive. Something I was very aware of when I wrote a description for my high Charisma character - I never wrote her beautiful, only described her and let other people make that judgement. I am someone who always read others descriptions. When someone has written that their character is beautiful but does not write -why- I do not feel I can properly react because I am not sure if that is something my character would notice or care about. Here's what the sourcebook says...

Charisma:

Hidden: show

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score. PHB 3.5 ed p9

I RP charisma as all the things mentioned in the quote from the source, I justify it by having high enough Charisma that it actually covers all those areas. Some things are not always present (like leadership or being persuasive) but when needed, the ability is there. Of course, not all things -have- to be reflected.

Force of personality,
Means the character has qualities in their personality that make them stand out from others and are considered to be interesting. In other words, the character is not someone who is considered to be boring. Can be portrayed as being easy to talk to, that person who can keep small talk up without it sounding forced. Low Charisma would mean others often find them bland or boring.

Persuasiveness,
Make other people do things for them. Can be a good or bad thing. Often this is reflected as well by having Diplomacy, Intimidate or Bluff. A character who has not invested in those skills, can still be persuasive. They could for example by discreet wording manipulate others to do things for them, whilst making that other person believe they are doing it for themselves. A character can through arguments or reason influence others in a desirable way to themselves, possibly by appealing to others "weak spots" to get the desirable result. A character with low charisma would find it difficult to persuade others. It may be possible in ways... such as a high Intelligence character describing different scenarios of what possible actions could entail, to influence others to choose the action with the least negative consequences.

Personal magnetism,
Something about the character makes other people aware of them. This can be a bit difficult to portray as some things could be god modding NPCs, it requires other people to respect your RP and react accordingly. The character simply has something which is not physical about them that makes other people want to talk to or notice them. Can also be negative, getting other people's attention can be bad in some situations. People want to be around the character with no obvious reason as to why. High Charisma characters should preferably not be RPed loners because their magnetism attracts people. I often see low charisma characters portrayed as loners, they might want the attention but simply fail to see how to. A low Charisma character can be portrayed as someone who tries too hard at getting attention and thus becomes a nuisance, such as over-dramatic.

Ability to lead,
Does not have to be in the great scope of things. The character can be seen as the leading figure in a group of friends, that one person who has the last word and decides what is to happen. No one might have appointed them and it might not even ever been said. The ability to lead means having people who the character can lead... All the areas above would provide the
character with people. It is not enough to write down on a biography that "this character is a leader" if the RP cannot support it. If the Charisma is all there but the player simply cannot portray it right in RP... others will not look to your character as a leadership figure. One of those times where you can not pull up the character sheet and say "I should be able to do that", strongly dependent on RP and the player. The character does not shy away from responsibilities and may be one of the first who offers to lead a task but not necessarily. The leadership role may fall on them naturally, such as being assigned the task... or taking control of a group from the appointed leader - sometimes the character may not even be aware of "stealing" the leader role. A low Charisma character would be someone who is not considered for leadership roles and if somehow ending up in one, makes for a leader no one listens to. A potential flaw in a character with high Charisma is in the wording; ability to lead does not mean the leadership is good. They could be making bad choices dependent on Intelligence and Wisdom scores.

Physical attractiveness,
Dependent on what others find attractive. Does not have to be something spectacular and can simply be the absence of any physical flaws. Avoid making a too perfect character in appearance, what makes a character attractive sometime can actually be a flaw. Of course, this is physical attractiveness. What is underneath can be hideous. Something else to avoid is a too alien detail in the appearance. The character does not need to stand out with a strange feature because they are already noticeable and stand out in a crowd. Some races are by default considered attractive in appearance (such as elves and drow), take it into consideration. A low Charisma character does not necessarily have to be ugly but instead have a lack of personal magnetism, manners or some other quality that makes them appalling to be around.

"Actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.",
Look at the definition of personality; personality is the pattern of collective character, behavioral, temperamental, emotional, and mental traits of a person. So a lot of character traits can fall under this and it is quite open for interpretation. The strength part here is also applicable to the classes who use it as a spell casting stat (or Turn Undead).

------------------------------------

Not only for high Charisma characters but try to describe the voice of the character, any scents (perfume? sweat? work related smells?), posture and walk style. Is social etiquette there or is it lacking...

Charisma is one of those stats, that in my opinion, require other people to respect your character sheet and your roleplay. It is a stat that largely depends on how others react and act with your character. Sometimes Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff can make up for having a low Charisma. The character can still influence someone through one of those skills but they are situational and the character would lack in general the persistent force and magnetism compared to someone with higher Charisma.

[seawied]

I have two characters with low charisma and I play the two very differently.

Joy is an 8 charisma bear warrior, whose lack hygiene and respect for social customs often get her into trouble. She also has the habit of telling tall tales, which no one but the most inebriated cretins would believe. She is sort, dirty, lacks any sort of sex appeal, and has credibility that is easy to dismiss. Additionally she has a difficult time reading people's emotional cues, and fails to react accordingly.

Verro also has 8 charisma. He is a bodyguard with the occasional stammer. I play him as the coward. He lacks any sort of leadership skills, but isn't rude in the slightest. He is reasonably hygienic, in great shape, but is easily forgotten or overlooked. All-in-all, he is the kind of person you could pass down the street and never notice.

I enjoy playing both characters. Even though they both share the same stat score in charisma, they play very differently. I think that dictating "low charisma characters MUST be played this exact way!" hinders creative RP. A low charisma score should affect how you play your character, but there are multiple outlets on how that can happen.