Changes in Sacred Fist

[Flession]

So, after logging in today, I have noticed that the monk and Sacred Fist AC no longer apply to my character when wearing Light Armor.

While I did search the forums for this update to no avail, which is why I have brought this here. I wanted to confirm that this is the new change in the PrC.

If it is, I would like to the opportunity to redo Mathiu on a 1:1 basis, as a lot of my decisions were based on the fact I could wear Light Armor and have those Monk AC bonuses attached to it. For instance, I would not have taken Paladin; I would have become a Cleric to have access to some AC boosting spells.

If is not an intended change, well, this is me bringing this error to your attention.

[mrm3ntalist]

So, after logging in today, I have noticed that the monk and Sacred Fist AC no longer apply to my character when wearing Light Armor..

I assume you talk about the wisdom adding to AC? If so it is not supposed to count since.

AC bonusEdit
A monk has a sixth sense that lets his avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, or when he carries a shield.

The fact that it did stack was considered a bug and was fixed a couple of years ago and not now.

[Steve]

monk and Sacred Fist AC no longer apply to my character when wearing Light Armor.

This change was made quite a long time ago, if I remember correctly. I believe it was always considered a Bug that Monk AC would stack when using Light Armor after taking the Sacred Fist PrC. Whether you can get a rebuild because of it...probably not, as the Server Rules state.

[PJtheFey]

As far as I know, Monk AC has never been available to characters wearing armor of any kind. I have a Spirit Shaman / Monk, and since level 2 she has not benefited from armor. Perhaps you are only just now noticing it?

[DM Golem]

The players seem to have covered this but as they say this is an old bug fix, and we would not be offering a rebuild on that basis.

[Flession]

The players seem to have covered this but as they say this is an old bug fix, and we would not be offering a rebuild on that basis.

But again, I was literally getting this thing yesterday with little problems.

It's what NWN2 offered at the time for the Sacred Fist (as it was discussed in the Complete Divine). The Pathfinder version did make this change, but we're not playing Pathfinder.

I'm not upset you're viewing this as a glitch and not as the class feature it was (wear light armor, be horrible with any other weapon other than your fists That was the trade off). Which, again, is fine. I'm have little to no say as to what you do with it.

What I am arguing is that this was not made known by any means on this forum. Not on the rules change, not in the class features. If I had known this view point, I would not have built him the way I did.

[DM Ioulaum]

It's what NWN2 offered at the time for the Sacred Fist (as it was discussed in the Complete Divine). The Pathfinder version did make this change, but we're not playing Pathfinder.

You are mistaken here.

The Wiki page you are citing literally says this:

AC bonus
When unencumbered, wearing no or light armor and not using a shield a sacred fist gains a +1 AC bonus. This increases to +2 at level 5 and +3 at 10.

Note: Though not mentioned in the description, this has the added benefit of allowing you to retain both your light armor bonus and your Monk AC bonus. This only functions if you already have Monk levels.

Excluding the wiki note this amounts to the way Sacred Fists work in D&D: they get SF AC, and from the Monk class they get Monk AC. As described you can keep SF AC with light armor. But your monk AC is lost when you equip light armor, as it always is: unless its mentioned that it isn't. That isn't mentioned, so its lost.

Ofcourse sometimes Dungeon Masters make exceptions to the textual rules, or interpret them creatively. For example because a particular class is considered weak. Other NWN2 servers probably consider this bug an "undocumented feature", on that account.

We don't consider Sacred Fists a weak class. The bugfix was thoroughly discussed in the community and among the staff. Ofcourse you are free to open a discussion in the collective issues forum to debate that with the community. Someone might shed some light on the discussion. I don't remember the finer points.

This is the D&D source (for comparison):
http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/sac ... index.html

AC Bonus (Ex): A sacred fist is highly trained at dodging blows, and he has a sixth sense that lets him avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unencumbered and wearing light or no armor, a sacred fist gains a +1 bonus to his AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and to +3 at 10th. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the sacred fist is flat-footed. He loses the bonus when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor heavier than light armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Because this was a bug fix the in-game description didn't need to be updated.
It would be informative to have a record of bug fixes somewhere. That is true. Because just like you, there are players from singeplayer or from other servers who come here and become confused why it works correctly on BGTSCC.

In general we don't refund players for trying and using bugs. Usually these fall under the server rule against exploits. We also don't give refunds when bugs are fixed. Whether they were fixed two years ago, or one year from now. Refunds are only granted if a DM ruling was made saying that it was okay to use the bug. That is the case with the practiced caster bug. And that is the only one I am aware of.