What did you do to us poor fighter builds ?

[Nomster]

The only thing that worries me about non-caster combat now is the new penalty system. The ranged cover thing, for instance, giving you a huge decrease in AB. That's not cool. Especially in a game where movement is so absolutely agonising already. This just overcomplicates the combat.

Yeah, this is a 10-year-old game with notoriously shoddy walkmeshing and an engine that can't always accurately tell when you're flanking. The cover/obstruction system is not adding value to combat mechanics.

I agree with that this cover/obstruction system should just go. The game was not designed for this. It does not add to gameplay at all, only to frustration.

[Bobthehero]

Really? I can hit 43 AC with my Frenzied Zerker right now with no buffs, and I am using a +3 heavy shield and a few +4 items. I could swap shields and hit 45.

[Deathgrowl]

None of my melee builds have ever had 45 AC without serious buffing from casters o.o Actually I think I've always been below 40

This is one build:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?217023

Has 44 AC at 21 with my current gear (I think that's a +4 full plate and rest is +3 gear. You can get +4 armour bracers anyways).

Is greater heavy armour optimisation serious AC focus? Not really. It's just +2 AC when using a full plate. You would gain the same by going 13 dex, a +3 dex item and a mithral full plate, which a lot of people do.

[RagingPeace]

None of my melee builds have ever had 45 AC without serious buffing from casters o.o Actually I think I've always been below 40

This is one build:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?217023

Has 44 AC at 21 with my current gear (I think that's a +4 full plate and rest is +3 gear. You can get +4 armour bracers anyways).

Is greater heavy armour optimisation serious AC focus? Not really. It's just +2 AC when using a full plate. You would gain the same by going 13 dex, a +3 dex item and a mithral full plate, which a lot of people do.

I don't have any +4 AC gear at all, can't afford it. And never even been close to having a mithral plate, as they go for what... 800k? But no, that's not serious AC focus. I know people say it's so easy getting gold on this server, but I must admit in my three years here I've never been above 200k, and not for lack of trying.

I think shops with more epic gear would definitely help.

[Bobthehero]

I blew about 160k for my +4 fullplate and I was told I overpaid for it. Dunno if you still have that 200k, but hey, might as well use it, right?

[Deathgrowl]

I know people say it's so easy getting gold on this server, but I must admit in my three years here I've never been above 200k, and not for lack of trying.

I have been at 500k once! Then it dropped rather fast. I now tend to lie around 100k.

[thids]

Was fine. ~45 AC with a tower shield is easy to achieve in mid epics even when not heavily focusing on AC. Most of the time I went for twohanding anyways.

Sure, you'll lose some HP. Bring some heal kits. They're cheap and you usually will have the strength to carry them.

Anyways, if this encourages finding groups, all the better.

I'd say you hit around 45 AC with a tower shield if you have the best possible gear. The more you invest into AC the less +4 items you need to hit 45. 45 is not enough for epic areas though, 50+ is the relatively comfortable zone. As for healing kits... that costs as well and it's yet another gold sink for fighters.

The problem is, it encourages finding groups for certain characters. Not for others. If the goal is to encourage people to find groups then everyone should be encouraged to do so through mechanical means, not just peasant fighter guys. Though I honestly don't think "encouraging" people to group through mechanical means is the right way to go. Those who dislike grouping won't like it any more if you force them to do so.

Is greater heavy armour optimisation serious AC focus? Not really. It's just +2 AC when using a full plate. You would gain the same by going 13 dex, a +3 dex item and a mithral full plate, which a lot of people do.

It is though! If one wants to go with a mfp, they have to invest 5 attribute points into dex, find a +3 dex item and find a mfp. Which is why those who don't have access to a mfp usually don't build for it.

[Deathgrowl]

Is greater heavy armour optimisation serious AC focus? Not really. It's just +2 AC when using a full plate. You would gain the same by going 13 dex, a +3 dex item and a mithral full plate, which a lot of people do.

It is though! If one wants to go with a mfp, they have to invest 5 attribute points into dex, find a +3 dex item and find a mfp. Which is why those who don't have access to a mfp usually don't build for it.

And yet 13 dex is still a requirement for WM/FB, which is by no means an AC focused build.

[CommanderKrieg]

The only thing that worries me about non-caster combat now is the new penalty system. The ranged cover thing, for instance, giving you a huge decrease in AB. That's not cool. Especially in a game where movement is so absolutely agonising already. This just overcomplicates the combat.

Yeah, this is a 10-year-old game with notoriously shoddy walkmeshing and an engine that can't always accurately tell when you're flanking. The cover/obstruction system is not adding value to combat mechanics.

I agree with that this cover/obstruction system should just go. The game was not designed for this. It does not add to gameplay at all, only to frustration.

I couldnt agree more with this statement.

[maulofthetitans55]

So I made a lowbie archer with 1 attack to try and make some sense of the cover system. It seems to be completely random judging by the penalties. For instance I shot something downhill with no obstructions and got -8 AB. Then it runs into melee and I shoot it for -5 AB, then the next round I shoot again for -8, both me and the mob standing in the exact same spot....

The sad part is half the testers actually voted yes for this ranged system, yet no ranged player in their right mind would ever vote for this so I'm guessing they're abusing votes to gain an advantage. My ranged lowbie mine as well have a permanent -5 AB now.

[Karond]

Cheer up.

With the dispel fix, we could relax some item restrictions. Like, BG has been very cautious about giving out buffs on items for the simple reason that it made them get the same ability as spellcasters. Cake on cake, so to speak.

But with the dispel fix, I see no reason why we can't be more generous with this. More items with heroism, flame weapon, bless weapon, bulls strength, greater resistance and so on, and more uses per day instead of charges.

Besides, the dispel fix hurts casters more than others. Particularly the HIPS variants.

[Invoker]

Besides, the dispel fix hurts casters more than others. Particularly the HIPS variants.

Nah, only those with less than CR 30, HiPS or not.

Casters with CL 30 and HiPS will be even stronger, just like every other CL 30+ caster.

[Deathgrowl]

Casters with CL 30 and HiPS will be even stronger, just like every other CL 30+ caster.

Only in PvP. Which doesn't matter. How often do you dispel in PvE?

[Steve]

Cheer up.
But with the dispel fix, I see no reason why we can't be more generous with this. More items with heroism, flame weapon, bless weapon, bulls strength, greater resistance and so on, and more uses per day instead of charges.

I thought the goal being proposed in this thread was to make it "fair" to not have to rely on magic!!!!

Unless the magic users have to rely on melee characters in an equal way.

[CommanderKrieg]

Casters with CL 30 and HiPS will be even stronger, just like every other CL 30+ caster.

Only in PvP. Which doesn't matter. How often do you dispel in PvE?

I have to say in PVE my hipsing wizard does very very well. He survived a wagner event!

((Please wagner do not hunt me down and make sure I dont survive))

Might just be me, but I've had no trouble as a hipsing wizard with high CL.