Law Clarification

[AstralisAdept]

Greetings All,

Does anyone know of a place in game, or on the forums that details laws about Animal Companions, Summons etc. being outlawed on the Trade Way, Outside FAI, or any other place that is not directly inside a town/city/civilization?

If you have such information, please provide a reply with some details (screen shot, link etc.)

[Boddynock]

The general rue of thumb (I think) is that other PCs treat these things ICly as they see them, with common sense. Are you being followed by that bear, or running from it? PC response to sumons and the like largely depends on what the summon/companion is. Micheal Dunn, for example, has a dog that is always out, everywhere, and everyone wants to pet it, because that is realistic. If you have a bear following you, people are going to react to it being a bear.

[AstralisAdept]

The general rue of thumb (I think) is that other PCs treat these things ICly as they see them, with common sense. Are you being followed by that bear, or running from it? PC response to sumons and the like largely depends on what the summon/companion is. Micheal Dunn, for example, has a dog that is always out, everywhere, and everyone wants to pet it, because that is realistic. If you have a bear following you, people are going to react to it being a bear.

Thanks for the input, that should help a newbie understand the basics of role playing with said features available.

Unfortunately that is not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about in game laws. Specifically on the Trade Ways, outside establishments etc.

[AstralisAdept]

To further clarify: I see plenty of signs and posts related to inside Baldurs's Gate, FAI, etc.

Additionally I have seen several players over the course of the past three months role playing as if:

-Companions/Summons on the Trade Way, Common Roads, Locations Near Cities etc. was an unlawful action.

-They were the local law enforcement and upholding this (after hours of searching in game, forums and asking players/DMs) seeming non-existent law.

-This seeming non-existent law is a reason to PvP there companions/summons and player who created them (not off base reaction but in the process of upholding a "law")

-They know who summoned or controls the companion.

I'm really interested to see if anyone can come up with validation for this behavior via any form of proper promulgation from the DMs, Builders etc.

[Boddynock]

Laws are posting in game where they apply. If my memory serves, the law's of BG end the second you step off the south en of Wyrm's Crossing, and the laws of Amn do not begin until you cross the river in the "north of Beregost" area.

There are no laws, per se, in between. But FR is sort of like the wild west in that whoever has the power to enforce a rule, can make it basically law.

The laws are also available here http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42477 .

[Boddynock]

To further clarify: I see plenty of signs and posts related to inside Baldurs's Gate, FAI, etc.

Additionally I have seen several players over the course of the past three months role playing as if:

-Companions/Summons on the Trade Way, Common Roads, Locations Near Cities etc. was an unlawful action.

-They were the local law enforcement and upholding this (after hours of searching in game, forums and asking players/DMs) seeming non-existent law.

-This seeming non-existent law is a reason to PvP there companions/summons and player who created them (not off base reaction but in the process of upholding a "law")

-They know who summoned or controls the companion.

I'm really interested to see if anyone can come up with validation for this behavior via any form of proper promulgation from the DMs, Builders etc.

Ah, well if your probalem is merely an IC one, then the answer is simple. You have to respond IC, as there motivations for doing any IC action could simply be that they are a goon, or a troublemaker, not all characters are lawful or even good.

If you have an OOC issue, or believe someone is metagaming you (though the assumption that a bear following you and not eating you is your companion is hardly metagaming either) that might be an issue you want to poke the DMs about.

[AstralisAdept]

Laws are posting in game where they apply. If my memory serves, the law's of BG end the second you step off the south en of Wyrm's Crossing, and the laws of Amn do not begin until you cross the river in the "north of Beregost" area.

There are no laws, per se, in between. But FR is sort of like the wild west in that whoever has the power to enforce a rule, can make it basically law.

The laws are also available here http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42477 .

Yeah that is the only post I can find other than the PvP rules Post that might apply. They don't seem to cover this vigilante justice being doled out. I'm baffled by this paradigm.

[Dagesh]

If I recall correctly, outside the FAI has certain rules. I can't recall where I saw this. It might even be a screen transition thing. In the past there was a lot of PVP going on so the guards spread outside the FAI even to the campfire if I recall correctly.

[AstralisAdept]

Ah, well if your probalem is merely an IC one, then the answer is simple. You have to respond IC, as there motivations for doing any IC action could simply be that they are a goon, or a troublemaker, not all characters are lawful or even good.

If you have an OOC issue, or believe someone is metagaming you (though the assumption that a bear following you and not eating you is your companion is hardly metagaming either) that might be an issue you want to poke the DMs about.

This is something I have seen dozens of times now. People claiming they "patrol this road for X", "they're upholding the local law", "X is not welcome here".

Every time I witness it I find it troubling, but I'm not running to a DM to dole out the harshness. Nor am I trying to flame spray someone for doing it. I'm more or less seeking transparency on the issue and hopefully illuminate for the community that this behavior is abominable to some and seemingly contagious (as I see it more and more every day).

[AstralisAdept]

If I recall correctly, outside the FAI has certain rules. I can't recall where I saw this. It might even be a screen transition thing. In the past there was a lot of PVP going on so the guards spread outside the FAI even to the campfire if I recall correctly.

Yes the transition says something to the regard of "Lawlessness will not be tolerated at the campfire outside FAI". I think its in reference to the overt amount of PvP that was taking place there. Pedantically promulgating " We are a business, however, and so will not allow brawling right before our gates which could harm paying customers. ((OOC: This means PVP at or before the FAI gate should be DM supervised as Bentley's guards will intervene to protect his business))". Which is another thing people continuously do.

[Dagesh]

I think the cause may have been PvP. That said, there's guards monitoring the area. I suppose it would depend on the summon/familiar at that point.

Sounds like some clarification would definitely help here. I wouldn't know what to do regarding seeing a bear or something like that. I mean, there's things like this happening as well...


http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=640468#p640468

[DM Ditto]

Chiming in here to say that the transition note regarding Flaming Fist keeping an eye on the FAI is outdated. The outskirts of the Friendly Arm Inn that's not in front of the portcullis is considered a lawless place.

[HazNpho]

The summon was an elemental and, it appeared just in front of FAI entrance where the wagons are. The user then went AFK and was unresponsive to conversation for several minutes. It was then that a dismissal spell was cast.

Assuming this is the incident Astralis is speaking of?

[NegInfinity]

Laws:
http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42477

Summons:
http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3170

Familiars and Animal Companions are considered an extension of the player character. Normal PvP rules must be followed if you wish to attack Familiars and Animal Companions.
However, the owner of a Monstrous Humanoid, Hellhound, or Worg animal companion consents to PvP if s/he is seen on the surface with that animal companion.

Summons can be attacked on sight, but normal PvP rules must be followed for the summoner (the player). The owner of the summons must also follow normal PvP rules in order to attack the killer of his or her summons. (Summons include any creature that can be summoned through a spell or an ability, and that is not a Familiar or an Animal Companion: These include angels, devils, elementals, and undead, among others.)

Shapeshifting: While polymorphed into a form that is not your own, you are perceived as being what you have become. This is PVP consent, unless you revert back to your natural form or RP that you are not a threat to the player that happens upon you in a shapeshifted form.

Attacking familiar/animal companion requires pvp consent, but UD summons/companions on surface are auto-pvp-consent.
Animal companions and familiars, IIRC, have description which ssays that they're familiars/companions.
Anything that is not a familiar/companion, is kill-on-sight, even if it is an angel, however the other player might decide not to ruin your day and rp instead. That includes elementals, devils, demons, angels, fey, and whatever else you can think of.

Usually the only animal you can take into the city is cat familiar, maybe dog.

"Being law enforcement" - people can say whatever they want, IC. Could claim to be an avatar of Azuth, for example. Your character doesn't have to believe them.

Of course, word of the DM will overrule whatever I say on the subject. If I say one thing, DM says another, DM is the one who's right.

[AstralisAdept]

The summon was an elemental and, it appeared just in front of FAI entrance where the wagons are. The user then went AFK and was unresponsive to conversation for several minutes. It was then that a dismissal spell was cast.

Assuming this is the incident Astralis is speaking of?

I speaking of general behavior against summons and animal companions over the past three months.

Additionally any specifics to any incident have no place here.