SuggestIon: Keep 100% rcr

[RagingPeace]

2. As a long time player, I've managed to acquire and store enough epic gear to fully power any class: cleric/druid, fighter (melee), wizard/sorcerer, FS, rogue/HiPS, etc. I maybe do not have a lvl 30 toon atm because I've used the RCR too much in the last years ( ) , however, if it was my wish, I could probably get one toon to lvl 30 in about 2 months.

Whether YOU can is not really the best arguement is it? The majority of the server cannot, not as far as I know at least.

Monday: RCR to an Illmater priest, and go around epic-ly healing those in need.
Tuesday: RCR to a Banite Cleric and go around epic-ly forcing submission throughout the land.
Wednesday: RCR to a HiPS assassin Ability munchkin and spy upon all the RP I can find.
Thursday: RCR to FS of Hoar and enact my own form of justice upon any PCs I find.
Friday: RCR to an EDM Bard and hit all the Bosses scoring epic loot...might even sing an epic tune in town, just for the ladies.
Saturday: RCR to Dragon Druid of Malar and go for the throat of any PCs "attacking" nature.
Sunday: See that my Red Wizard Shadow Adept Harper Barbarian application was approved, and now, plan out my following week of "role-play."

You can also do this with 50% xp loss, just with fewer levels. Though the keyword is -COULD-. Do you seriously believe this will become a thing? We're all just trolls on the Internet? And most of the arguements against your points have been a variant of the 100% RCR, that would specifically be with a time/amount limit.

The argument seems to be that RL time to get to level 30 is the most value, so let's do everything we can so no Player loses any more "wasted" time leveling. If that is your argument, then why not just give or start at Level 30 for everyone?

Or is the majority of thought that 1x leveling to 30 is the "penalty," but after doing it once, you gain the "reward?"

Either way, in my perception of the discussion, it seems very few find no or much value in RPing your Character from Level 1 through Level 30...am I wrong?

The issue is the amount of time wasted time leveling, yes, correct, which is why many have been trying to make the arguement of increasing xp in various ways. The RCR option is really only for when you get burnt out playing your long-term character.

How exactly does your character develop grinding goblins, orcs, kobolds, lizards and giants? I mean, the only gain would be that we're all heroic monster slayers, having slain THOUSANDS of monsters. The whole point we're trying to make is to get some of the grinding pointed to RP'ing instead.

[chad878262]

Well....

1. Narshe said it isn't going to stay permanent. But, if we're whistling dixie, then:

2. As a long time player, I've managed to acquire and store enough epic gear to fully power any class: cleric/druid, fighter (melee), wizard/sorcerer, FS, rogue/HiPS, etc. I maybe do not have a lvl 30 toon atm because I've used the RCR too much in the last years ( ) , however, if it was my wish, I could probably get one toon to lvl 30 in about 2 months.

So now I have a lvl 30, the 100% RCR at my disposal, and a ton of epic gear for any build possible on BGTSCC. Given that I'm "allowed" to freely RCR and create any type of PC at lvl 30—and at the "wished for" 100% rate—I could create this weekly schedule:

Monday: RCR to an Illmater priest, and go around epic-ly healing those in need.
Tuesday: RCR to a Banite Cleric and go around epic-ly forcing submission throughout the land.
Wednesday: RCR to a HiPS assassin Ability munchkin and spy upon all the RP I can find.
Thursday: RCR to FS of Hoar and enact my own form of justice upon any PCs I find.
Friday: RCR to an EDM Bard and hit all the Bosses scoring epic loot...might even sing an epic tune in town, just for the ladies.
Saturday: RCR to Dragon Druid of Malar and go for the throat of any PCs "attacking" nature.
Sunday: See that my Red Wizard Shadow Adept Harper Barbarian application was approved, and now, plan out my following week of "role-play."

Why are we NOT promoting long term Character development that begins at low Level and "grows" during it's Life on the Sword Coast? Why are we promoting holding on to / transferring over MAXIMUM POWER ATTAINMENT to whatever "storyline" the Player wants?

The argument seems to be that RL time to get to level 30 is the most value, so let's do everything we can so no Player loses any more "wasted" time leveling. If that is your argument, then why not just give or start at Level 30 for everyone?

Or is the majority of thought that 1x leveling to 30 is the "penalty," but after doing it once, you gain the "reward?"

Either way, in my perception of the discussion, it seems very few find no or much value in RPing your Character from Level 1 through Level 30...am I wrong?

In your example about 7 hours (or more!) per week are going to be spent building the PC, reorganizing equipment, redoing spells, quickbars, selecting languages and generally maintaining your one PC that is being different roles every day. I can't imagine anyone doing that for very long without burning themselves out, but who knows? Perhaps a few have the time on their hands, the patience and the actual desire to do this...

I agree 100% RCR shouldn't stay, but I do think there could be benefit in re-examining the percentages as I still (vividly) remember the issues I had playing my first PC early on. I also see posts pretty often from new players that are frustrated with the server because they made a character, realized it's useless and, especially with that first character losing 50% XP sucks...even if you are 'only' level 6-10 at the time. You feel like going back there again is unacceptable because you don't know all the questing tricks...you aren't someone who's been playing a year plus and can level 1-10 in a couple days (or less?) so in those very fresh (to the server) eyes it very much seems a penalty, especially when there is no real way to know what to expect until you get in to the server and play. This is why I think there is benefit to offering 100% RCR to level 10, 80% to 20 and 50-65% after 20 (would need to look at 20/21 and ensure that you are not dropping to a lower level than you would have at 20 so percentages would have to be looked at). Point being you don't get to constantly be level 30 with every new idea after retiring a PC, but if it is a matter of learning new things level 1-10 there is no penalty, as you learn the percentage is reduced to reflect that RCR should not be done lightly because we should make it require some thought before changing your build, the deeper you get in to that character. This also respects that there are others on the server that may well have RP dependent on the character that getting RCR'd messes up that story line.

[Steve]

Keeping the 100% RCR and the need we all feel for gaining XP via "role-play" in equal to grinding, are two different issues. And when we conflate them, the waters get muddy.

I can RCR a toon in an hour. Less than that if I log on with 2 computers (better yet, use one computer/OS and an emulator).

But the point missed, maybe, is that I was being sarcastic in order to present how 100% RCR opens the Server to arse-hattery...and even if one arsehat like myself got to doing it, it would be "legal," and...how would that benefit the Game Environment?

Now, this:

we should make it require some thought before changing your build, the deeper you get in to that character.

Well, I more or less agree. But who is qualified to be the arbiter of this? I can hear the DMs cringe from here, having to be judges to this, every time a Player turns their Joey the Mage into a Joey the Fighter, on a snap, lvl 30 to lvl 30. Even if it is done just one single time, it completely defies the Play your Character Sheet rule, since we are given carte blanche to change it at whim.

If the issue boils down to "how best to be kind to the Playerbase," trumping over issues of Role-Play Server and Play your Sheet, then yes, maybe having 100% RCR for up to lvl 10 is the kinder option. But the 50% up to lvl 20 worked just fine until it was TEMPORARILY REPLACED, but heaven forbid if Players get their T-bird taken away.

[Calodan]

But the point missed, maybe, is that I was being sarcastic in order to present how 100% RCR opens the Server to arse-hattery...and even if one arsehat like myself got to doing it, it would be "legal," and...how would that benefit the Game Environment?

I think the REAL ASSHATERY is taking a MAKE BELIEVE WORLD IN A VIDEO GAME SOOOOOO VERY SERIOUSLY......... It is a game and the more we try to involve RL in it the more we lose the real vision of what it is supposed to be. A PASS TIME FUN THING. Too many rule lawyers make it a boorish place and I got to say those who continue to press this idea on the forums are what really turns me off to BG and BURNS me out. We need to step back and stop trying to be OVERLORDS sometime and just have fun. The entire world is imagined. It is a make believe sandbox with magic. Anything could happen but instead we force ourselves to ride down some preconceived railroad that goes only one direction. This is the product of treating the LORE as RULES instead of GUIDELINES.......Which brings me to my last point I am tired of being FAVORED HOLY GUY. I WANT TO BE A PIRATE!!! YAAARGH! YO HO WHERE IS ME RUM!?

[NegInfinity]

every time a Player turns their Joey the Mage into a Joey the Fighter, on a snap, lvl 30 to lvl 30.

The point of 100% was not to allow changing Joey from "Mage" to "Favored Sole". I don't do that, so I don't need that.

The point was to
1. Fix the situation where you accidentally messed up your build (due to lack of knowledge, error, etc).
2. You want a new character.

The problem is amount of IRL time. You're a "dragon" player sitting of pile of equipment on a server where twinking is allowed (for some reason), good for you.

I'm against wasting people's IRL time needlessly.

Those who enjoy and love slow progression could easily request a handicap feat just for them that would reduce amount of xp received and apply rcr penalty just for them. Oh and permadeath. No point in forcing your standards onto others.

I think the REAL ASSHATERY is taking a MAKE BELIEVE WORLD IN A VIDEO GAME SOOOOOO VERY SERIOUSLY......... It is a game and the more we try to involve RL in it the more we lose the real vision of what it is supposed to be. A PASS TIME FUN THING. Too many rule lawyers make it a boorish place and I got to say those who continue to press this idea on the forums are what really turns me off to BG and BURNS me out. We need to step back and stop trying to be OVERLORDS sometime and just have fun. The entire world is imagined. It is a make believe sandbox with magic. Anything could happen but instead we force ourselves to ride down some preconceived railroad that goes only one direction.

Completely agree with this.

[Steve]

It's hilarious to me that anyone reacts with an idea that I can force anything upon them.

I take the game seriously—I'm a serious game player. Is there some attempt to shame me because I uphold an ideology? Maybe I have this platform in which to present an opinion, and everyone else, theirs.

So, arguing what you think others are, labeling them as one negative thing or another, without being specific or direct, does little for saying anything with meaning against their argument(s). This is often called a red herring.

The point was to
1. Fix the situation where you accidentally messed up your build (due to lack of knowledge, error, etc).
2. You want a new character.

Well, I agree with your first point. It would save the DMs some time and energy. The second point is not a good one, in my opinion, because a player can choose to low RP a powerbuild until 30, then 100% RCR to a class combo or character + class combo that would be somewhat difficult, either because of skill at the game, or the game environment itself. Which reiterates my earlier point of asking: why not just give all players a lvl 30?

As for being a dragon player...or whatever...it is good for me. Thank you. Most of it I earned in investment in the Game. Just like most things in life, they require an investment for a rewarding experience. Equating leveling from a nobody lvl 1 character to an epic lvl 30 arse kicker is "wasting people's IRL time needlessly," then I have to ask, in all seriousness and sincerity: why are you playing on BGTSCC?

[Thorsson]

But surely the real argument against 100% RCR is simply that today you play a level 30 FS; tomorrow a level 30 Wizard, the next day a level 30 Druid - but hold on, they're all the same character, just RCR'd.

Yes. This is probably the main argument against 100% RCR.

And what an incredibly poor argument it is. I mean, there are probably like 2 players on the server total that have done this without the 100%.

Without the 100% yes. With the 100% it would be another matter...

It beggars belief that you can't see the difference.

[Calodan]

Without the 100% yes. With the 100% it would be another matter...

Somone is communing with a god......What god are you a cleric of?

I do not think any of us can tell the future.

One thing that has not been discussed is the fact that this particular little BOON could possibly cut down how many PCs are in the server vault from people. I mean have we discussed all the PROs and CONs? The idea would be at that point do the PROs outweigh the CONs and are any of the CONs game breaking? Are any of the PROs game breaking? By game breaking what we mean does it upset the mechanical balance and or break rules set forth. Is there going to be a bit of questionable plausibility in RP at times from some people? Yes there is now without it so not going to slay this beast it is just like the RUST MONSTER of BG that is back currently.

[NegInfinity]

Is there some attempt to shame me because I uphold an ideology? Maybe I...

As long as you do not start pushing your ideology onto others and insisting that this ideology represents "The On And Only Truly Correct Way To Do Things", I honestly don't give a damn about it.

opinion, because a player can choose to low RP a powerbuild until 30, then 100%...

As long as he/she/it plays both characters properly, I see no reason to police the way he progresses or police how he would acquire the character level. I expect the other player to play the role properly. Only that. Nothing else matters.

Most of it I earned in investment in the Game. Just like most things in life, they...

"I earned my XP by investing Time into the Game. Just like most things in life .."
It puzzles me why people go against xp transfer but have absolutely no qualms with item transfer or twinking, which is essentially the same thing.

Equating leveling from a nobody lvl 1 character to an epic lvl 30 arse kicker is "wasting people's IRL time needlessly," then I have to ask, in all seriousness and sincerity: why are you playing on BGTSCC?

Is that a some thin-veiled attempt to chase me off the server on ideologic grounds?

[AstralisAdept]

Sure! Keep the 100% RCR.....and make permadeath. That will balance out a lot of things

[Thorsson]

I do not think any of us can tell the future.

And that cuts both ways.

But I have the evidence of my eyes; just stay awhile in the Nexus and so will you...

I also have the evidence of many years studying the ways humans behave. Probably many more years than you, if you bothered studying it (which on the balance of probabilities you didn't).

[Maecius]

We won't be keeping the 100% RCR. I understand the desire and the arguments for it, but I can state pretty unequivocally that it won't be around forever:

It has been generously extended to the player base, QC, and DMs so that everyone can test out the new content in a risk free setting. But it's not intended to create an entrenched, privileged class of veteran players. The 50% RCR already provides veteran players a leg-up over new players if they want to experiment with a new concept after retiring an old one. Creating a situation where more than half the player base is always-level-30 is not really in the interest of the server's long-term play environment.

[Calodan]

I also have the evidence of many years studying the ways humans behave. Probably many more years than you, if you bothered studying it (which on the balance of probabilities you didn't).

*facepalms* Speechless. This is sad. Very sad. Even funny in a sense. Elitist thought process at its finest. Good luck with that.

[Thorsson]

Creating a situation where more than half the player base is always-level-30 is not really in the interest of the server's long-term play environment.

This.

[Calodan]

Well that does make some sense to not allow 30 full rebuilds then why not actually give back 50% and not cap it? Or better yet give back 100% up to level 20? That way low levels are instead given the boon? That way you can redo a bad build at level 17 when you realize it and things actually get hard to do?