Warlock hunters/haters.

[Snarfy]

I guess i just never got the entire bigot / rage thing...

What diff does it make to someone who isn't a warlock / Half-orc, what-ever when it's some else's choices we are talking about...

This kind of petty hate - It's just ignorance and evil at it's worst.

Because bigotry, racism, and intolerance are very commonplace in the setting. Or at least they should be. Unfortunately, someone who creates a concept and rolls up a character on this server that despises orcs, even if they have an elaborate and well thought out IC justification for doing so, is FAR more likely to suffer some ridiculous OOC backlash for reacting in a hostile IC manner at the sight of an orc.

Players tend to not want to hurt other players feelings, and they also let their RL pre-conceptions and aversion to bigotry override their better judgement when it comes to our setting. Hence the reason the majority of players are more likely to be found singing kumbaya while getting mad XP'z next to their undead summoning grinding pal, or not batting an eye at grey orcs cooking chimichangas at the FAI ( ) than lashing out at warlocks, evil races, or evil behavior. Realistically speaking, this tolerant carebear mentality really has no place in our setting, but it certainly is prevalent, because catering to players feelings > RP. Sign of the times I guess.

[Planehopper]

It has always been a touchy subject here, for at least 9 years.

Honestly, it is complicated. I agree that there should be racism, xenophobia, some very, very strong prejudices between races, factions, tribes, religions.. you name it. Not only are such things supported largely by lore, but by server history. "Tolerance is Treason" was decreed by the Dukes after having been led by the Wyndsouls, after all.

The problem, as I see it, is when players have difficulty separating IC actions for OOC actions, or when folks use the IC prejudices to OOC grief other players.

Everyone here should be here to tell a collaborative story. That story is going to include darker sides of humanity that aren't readily present/acceptable in today's world, hate and bigotry among them. If we all make sure that we are cool as players, who cares how much hate is there between characters?

Burn them all.

[flyingchair]

I guess i just never got the entire bigot / rage thing...

What diff does it make to someone who isn't a warlock / Half-orc, what-ever when it's some else's choices we are talking about...

This kind of petty hate - It's just ignorance and evil at it's worst.

Because bigotry, racism, and intolerance are very commonplace in the setting. Or at least they should be. Unfortunately, someone who creates a concept and rolls up a character on this server that despises orcs, even if they have an elaborate and well thought out IC justification for doing so, is FAR more likely to suffer some ridiculous OOC backlash for reacting in a hostile IC manner at the sight of an orc.

Players tend to not want to hurt other players feelings, and they also let their RL pre-conceptions and aversion to bigotry override their better judgement when it comes to our setting. Hence the reason the majority of players are more likely to be found singing kumbaya while getting mad XP'z next to their undead summoning grinding pal, or not batting an eye at grey orcs cooking chimichangas at the FAI ( ) than lashing out at warlocks, evil races, or evil behavior. Realistically speaking, this tolerant carebear mentality really has no place in our setting, but it certainly is prevalent, because catering to players feelings > RP. Sign of the times I guess.

That is the big issue here and i agree snarfy, My warlock isn't going to ask others to hate him, or point out that he is casting forbidden and dangerous incantations. He is going to use those who would defend him in character ofcourse, but when it goes ooc and real life ideoligies step in, it just becomes silly, and i will have a few choice words for those that do that. This realm we're in is filled with racism, but its not seen as racism, more often than not its just the normal view to have. ofcourse a character with high wisdom is going to think differently than the masses would but they're in the minority.

What i'm trying to say is that the problem doesn't only lie with those that should be hated, in fact it lies mostly with those that would break character to defend them for ooc reasons like "we're getting good xp here dont ruin it!" or "i'm friends with this guy in real life!".

[CommanderKrieg]

I personally love it when I play evil and someone sees me cast vampiric feast and goes:

"Augh dear god! That is disgusting! You are Disgusting!"

I played a warlock for a little bit, and found people were too nice to me so I deleted the character. Its no fun being evil if everyone accepts you so readily and gives you the benefit of the doubt. Some of my greatest fun was being evil and getting kicked around the coast.

Honorable mentions:

Mippy the Warlock Hunter


As for acceptance and our modern ideals being inserted into the setting of this game?
Gr8 B8 M8 R8 8/8 (Its a long long debate that I dont want to get into)

[Hrothgar]

I play a toon that hates warlocks and all outsiders (including Aasimar lol). She wants to hunt them to genocidal extinction with a few minor exceptions.

[kleomenes]

Debates about tolerance and so on come up often, and yes, its good when people RP prejudices and fear of dark magic appropriately.

I tend to find a few things that come up though which I kind of have a different view to others on:
- A focus on orcs and tieflings, when little RP is done regarding regional and local prejudices between various groups of humans, a much more glaring omission in RP IMO. I mean, Illuskan tribesmen are viewed as little better than orcs by civilised cities. I did not see much of that when playing my pseudo illuskan barbarian. I always cheer when I RP with a new character and where they came from is actually relevant, or treats my own regional PCs in such a way. This is probably me just wanting to see more regional RP
- Going on from the above, people tend to overlook the massive tension between traditional elves/elven communities, and humans. I do see it RPed sometimes (shout out to Invoker on this!), but its a bigger deal in more parts of the world than orcs are (Tethyr, Amn, Sembia). Its just an exception, not a norm. Perhaps its due to the proliferation of elven PCs on the server (and of course, elves living amongst humans in BG WOULD be tolerated, so...)
- An assumption that orcs are a big deal for characters not from the Sword Coast north of the cloud peaks (they aren't - there is one small tribe in the whole of Tethyr, for example, and the orcs in Amn are citizens), although server lore does make them a big problem for BG
- Statements that FR is a "medieval" setting and that medieval mores and customs, including bigotry apply. While this is true to a certain extent, the fact remains that FR is more tolerant than the real medieval world ever was, and modern ideals of tolerance do exist in some areas and some groups. Its more correct to say that bigotry should not be as reviled as it is in the modern world, its not correct that everyone should be bigots. Indeed, an outright bigot (rather than mistrustful) from Silverymoon or the Dales should be a rarity (And in many ways cities like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate are much more tolerant than real world cities).

It should be noted that this is a world of objective good and evil; its valid for "good" PCs to have non-good flaws, but make no mistake, its not "good" in FR to be a bigot or a racist (if it comes to the point of bloodletting, its evil, a lack of respect for life), and would go against most good divine portfolios (although, I'm a proponent of the idea that its wrong to expect all characters, even divine ones, to be perfect representatives of their gods).

There are actually gods who actively promote tolerance between the races (Eg, Selune); and organisations who do the same (EG the Harpers)

Finally: adventurers are the 1%. So they are meant to have whacky rules.

---

ALL THAT SAID this somewhat plays into what others have said, that there is a fear of causing OOC offence.

I play a cleric of Ilmater, a tolerant god; he has something of a reputation for being a redeemer, but he is actually intolerant of those doing evil or dabbling with evil - or indeed those tolerating it in others. To the point of being quite unreasonable on some things (I do believe at this point there is a case that he is actively bigoted towards Thayans, for example)

This includes warlocks who use their powers (he raises the whole point that even if the pact is involuntary, its from an evil source so using it is in some way accepting it)

He is wary around Tieflings.

He understands orcs are monstrous savages. He is from Tethyr, so when he arrived in BG he thought all the complaining about orcs was overblown ("Hah, incompetant northerners; we just killed them all when they were a trouble"), but he learned the hard way about the fury of orcs. That said, he knows of the orc citizens of Amn, so he knows there is capacity to tame orcs. But in pragmatic terms, orcs are enemies until proven otherwise (the same applying to drow)

He had prejudice against elves for a long time, but he has been somewhat "cured" of that.

Ultimately I do worry that when I RP his reaction to warlocks/known evil characters/monstrous races/characters he cannot trust or is duty bound to oppose, it ruffles feathers.

I guess it is striking a balance, and making clear to everyone there are no OOC hard feelings, when such RP is explored.

EDIT: Typos

[thids]

My characters are progressive SJW's, they despise everyone equally.

[V'rass]

Im taking a huge risk by getting involved with this topic but I cannot resist. Hate, bigotry, and intolerance may not be good but they are not evil. Hate is an emotion, trying to make it a thought crime is the essence of fascism. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is nasty. If some person says he does not like (insert group) then he is entitled to that opinion. I hate certain groups of people in our world. I make no attempt to hide it and I make no excuses for it. I do not care if people consider me evil for so doing, if I wish to express my displeasure with certain groups I will, if others don't like it that is too bad. I could care less whether people think me a bigot, I will be true to myself and to hell with anyone else's opinion of me. Too many people have given in to this political correctness movement which criminalizes any and all criticism of different groups some of whom it is my firm belief deserve criticism.

I am the same IC, I don't care about hurting other players feelings with my rp as long as the rp is according to the rules. if they are playing a character type I don't like I will rp my displeasure with them IC. If my rp offends them then too bad. As long as I follow the rp guidelines and don't attack them ooc i am playing by the rules but if they take issue with me ooc for perfectly legal IC actions then i am not interested in hearing them call me names and saying im mean. Granted i play relatively agreeable characters who rarely get angry and treat people in a nasty way. I try to restrain my negative tendencies when possible ic and ooc. Im not going to hate on someone simply for the sake of hatred, if i don't like certain groups there is a clearly defined and logical reason why. Same goes for real life, i don't go after anyone just for the hell of it, if i dislike them then there is a reason for it. Im not a naturally mean guy but im not going to allow silly social taboo's to keep me from expressing my opinion in game or in real life. I will act as i will, period. Prob best for me to shut up now before i end up getting banned. Apologies for the rant.

[NeOmega]

Of course, you need to be talented enough to ID them as warlocks ... not just metagame them.

This is why I usually don't hate. I've read spellcraft checks don't count. I've also read "glowing hands" are not a tell tale sign, and metagaming.

I have actually never had bigotry towards teiflings end well OOC. Seems every teifling i have acted racist towards with my characters inclined to do so has actually been a "good" teifling.

[flyingchair]

Im taking a huge risk by getting involved with this topic but I cannot resist. Hate, bigotry, and intolerance may not be good but they are not evil. Hate is an emotion, trying to make it a thought crime is the essence of fascism. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is nasty. If some person says he does not like (insert group) then he is entitled to that opinion. I hate certain groups of people in our world. I make no attempt to hide it and I make no excuses for it. I do not care if people consider me evil for so doing, if I wish to express my displeasure with certain groups I will, if others don't like it that is too bad. I could care less whether people think me a bigot, I will be true to myself and to hell with anyone else's opinion of me. Too many people have given in to this political correctness movement which criminalizes any and all criticism of different groups some of whom it is my firm belief deserve criticism.

I am the same IC, I don't care about hurting other players feelings with my rp as long as the rp is according to the rules. if they are playing a character type I don't like I will rp my displeasure with them IC. If my rp offends them then too bad. As long as I follow the rp guidelines and don't attack them ooc i am playing by the rules but if they take issue with me ooc for perfectly legal IC actions then i am not interested in hearing them call me names and saying im mean. Granted i play relatively agreeable characters who rarely get angry and treat people in a nasty way. I try to restrain my negative tendencies when possible ic and ooc. Im not going to hate on someone simply for the sake of hatred, if i don't like certain groups there is a clearly defined and logical reason why. Same goes for real life, i don't go after anyone just for the hell of it, if i dislike them then there is a reason for it. Im not a naturally mean guy but im not going to allow silly social taboo's to keep me from expressing my opinion in game or in real life. I will act as i will, period. Prob best for me to shut up now before i end up getting banned. Apologies for the rant.

It sounds like you are doing exactly the same as those that would defend a necromancer or warlock because of real life reasons, in your case it would just be hate instead of acceptance.

If that's how your character is, then coolio. Aslong as there is in character reasoning behind that hate then its fine, but if that hate comes from you as a player, then it's a problem.

[Deathgrowl]

Not sure I'd call it bigotry to be intolerant of people who willingly make pacts with objective evil entities (warlocks!). That's like saying it's bigotry to not tolerate murderers. Absurd.

My characters are progressive SJW's, they despise everyone equally.

Surely "progressive" and "SJW" are opposites.

[V'rass]

Closest I come to having real ooc hate for is crit builds. I came from a neverwinter night server where crit builds would routinely crit for over 1000 hp seemingly without regard for ac or buffs. Needless to say they were the most hated characters on the server though very fun to play lol.

[Akulakha]

I am all for it, please hate on my PC Vera, this hot headed tie fling might just leave you with a friend from the 9 layers for you to make fun of muhahahah!!

It's the haters that make it so much more fun and exciting to be evil.

[NeOmega]

I just want to throw it out there that eldritch magic is punishable by death in Amn, and I have had someone use it against my character in Beregost not 10 feet away from the guards... And I got fined for it.

If most wizards and sorcerers can not tell the difference between eldritch and arcane magic, then a guard certainly would not be able to. All he would care about is the caster had a license. It's all magic to them.

[Ivan38Rus]

Then magic should be treated with suspicion, given how it's like 5% of Faerun's human population that practice it