bluff vs bluff and sense motive?

[Akulakha]

One thing I've been wondering about in-game is is it possible to use your own bluff against another bluffer? I mean it would make sense realistically for a master of lies to tell that someone is lying to them right? They know how to think and act to someone by trying to deceptively appear honest and have good intentions but when in fact they have intentions that do not suit well for the one they are deceiving or lying too. So when liars know how to do this they should be able to tell right then when someone is lying to them right? Or am I wrong?

[thebeasttt]

Kind of answered your own question in the title. If you could use Bluff to discover lies there would be no purpose of sense motive. I also have to disagree with the logic. Just because a wizard can cast fireballs doesn't mean he's resistant to them. Archers don't get deflect arrows, etc. In that case we could switch around every skill in the game, sense motive lets you bluff, spellcraft lets you use magic item, lore lets you spell craft and so on.

Also keep in mind server wise you don't even have to roll Bluff to lie, nor sense motive to accuse them of lying. Those rolls are Dm enforced. I would encourage everyone to take rolls seriously but if someone just says "No I didn't" then rolls a 50 bluff they don't deserve to be taken seriously. Lastly if your drow rolls a 50 bluff against a surface elf he may still call you a liar simply because he hates drow, not because he doesn't believe you.

[Calantyr]

I've met people who are fantastic liars, but have absolutely no capacity to discern the lies of other people. Some even come to believe their own lies. If real life is any indication then the two things are seperate.

Sense Motive is there for a reason. A high Bluff skill might give you a +2 bonus to Sense Motive (I think it does in PnP), but you should still use Sense Motive.

[Akulakha]

Ok makes sense. Thanks for the responses.