Remove Archmage Class Restrictions

[Steve]

If the multi class restrictions were to be removed to fall in line with PnP 3.5e, how about also requesting the other Requirements needed for Arch Mage?

As well...it's only a 5 level PrC!?!

[Sylael]

If the multi class restrictions were to be removed to fall in line with PnP 3.5e, how about also requesting the other Requirements needed for Arch Mage?

As well...it's only a 5 level PrC!?!

There's an idea. Though one that Im guessing would take significant more tinkering behind the scenes from the already busy devs rather than just deleting one sentence in a class description and forum rules.

[Invoker]

If the multi class restrictions were to be removed to fall in line with PnP 3.5e, how about also requesting the other Requirements needed for Arch Mage?

As well...it's only a 5 level PrC!?!

Are you joking?

It was made 10 levels for balance reasons. 5 lvls Prc with 5 High Arcanas is completely overpowered, whereas now the class is perfectly balanced (or was, before patch. Now, every CL30 caster is broken OP).

Class restrictions were put in place to prevent Eldritch Knight and Shadowdancer's shenanigans which were deemed incongruous with the class RP.

If you want to take singing lessons, you can't be an Archmage. If you want to learn to sneak, sorry, can't be an Archmage. Those guys only practice magic, the entire time. That was the idea. Just as a background.

PS: Archmage/Shadow Adept isn't good. If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and play one. Take SSs of your character and number the bones, before they smash you to pieces...will be needed to put you back together.

[Steve]

Are you joking?

Yes. Because removing the multi class restrictions is another attempt at getting more power to a Class Type that is already fantastically powerful for this Server/Game.

[mrm3ntalist]

Are you joking?

Yes. Because removing the multi class restrictions is another attempt at getting more power to a Class Type that is already fantastically powerful for this Server/Game.

Mechanically speaking, I would be interested to see a full build, multiclassing archmage with a non caster class, that is more powerful than without.

The only one i could make is a Wizard11/SD3/AM6/BM10, which allows to get an extra DC ( really the power comes from BM)

[Steve]

Getting Evasion, getting HiPS, armored caster, Death Attack.

Blood Mage is bull crap PrC on this Server as it is—for barely RPed PrC, you get all the perks. I'd toss it in a heart beat, if it was my ability.

[Ariella]

I would likely make use of alchemist or thaumaturge.

[Planehopper]

I would likely make use of alchemist or thaumaturge.

Thaumaturge has been on the list since it was introduced.

I would imagine that Alchemist would be an approved class as well (and that the list is not up to date). Perhaps Techsmith would be allowed as well if Arcane casters are allowed to take that PrC. I dunno.

[Nomster]

So what would everyone go for in terms of build if the archmage restriction was taken away?

Since you asked! Telia used to have Archmage before she was RCRed 1.5 year ago. The only reason she does not have Archmage now is because it cannot be multi-classed with Bard. The dip in Bard would be small, only for RP reasons and to max perform which would be of no advantage other than RP.

I never raised it back then because I thought the restrictions were for 'balance issues' but now with Hierophant added and the PRC bug fixed, I think it should be reviewed.


BTW, there's an NPC Archmage with a dip in Barbarian
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Murial

[mrm3ntalist]

Getting Evasion, getting HiPS, armored caster, Death Attack.

Blood Mage is bull crap PrC on this Server as it is—for barely RPed PrC, you get all the perks. I'd toss it in a heart beat, if it was my ability.

You can already do this with other PRCs. Do you have a build in mind that would be more powerful with these classes AND Archmage?

One free tip for the day. You dont need to take Blackguard or DS to make an armored caster. You can "buy" the armor feats and still have a pure caster saving 3 feats ( PSC, [dodge, iron will for DS ], [ power attack, cleave for BG] )

Other than the lore that invoker mentioned, there is nothing in all other areas ( mechanics, balance ) that should prevent Archmage to be open for all classes.

[Invoker]

Other than the lore that invoker mentioned, there is nothing in all other areas ( mechanics, balance ) that should prevent Archmage to be open for all classes.

Even more so now, that PSC cannot be exploited (via EK usage, for instance) and that CL became all-important.

Right now, the only classes you want to cross-class with as Archmage are already in the list.

As for making it 5 levels, as in Steve's joke, that's an insane power boost.

[Steve]

Other than the lore that invoker mentioned, there is nothing in all other areas ( mechanics, balance ) that should prevent Archmage to be open for all classes.

So your professional opinion is that Arch Mages should also be allowed to be HiPSters?

[mrm3ntalist]

Other than the lore that invoker mentioned, there is nothing in all other areas ( mechanics, balance ) that should prevent Archmage to be open for all classes.

So your professional opinion is that Arch Mages should also be allowed to be HiPSters?

Professional? Who? * looks around *

Yes they should be allowed. Not only there is no balance concern but it is also the only not evil PRC ( Shadow Adept, Red wizard, Blood Magus ) that allows you to have CL beyond your HD

[Steve]

The only one i could make is a Wizard11/SD3/AM6/BM10, which allows to get an extra DC ( really the power comes from BM)

Yes they should be allowed. Not only there is no balance concern but it is also the only not evil PRC ( Shadow Adept, Red wizard, Blood Magus ) that allows you to have CL beyond your HD

M3nt M3nt M3nt...don't you know?

Alignment: Any non-good

Alignment: Any non-good

Alignment: Any non Lawful

We can have a fun day going back and forth over DCs, mechanical whatnots and Alignment reasons, but really, it is a Role-play reason. Why have any specific PrCs of any type when we take down restrictions that exist to establish ROLE-PLAY REASONS for being any PrC or Class, and then, wait for it...actually RPing your Character Sheet.

Nonetheless, getting Evasion, HiPS and CL above 30 is pretty much reason to just play this build and no other if you want to a powerful caster...even if it is just one build.

But hey...don't take my argument in consideration. The Server is already losing Players by the handful from poor decisions made by Staff, so why not go ahead with another one?!?!

[mrm3ntalist]

The only one i could make is a Wizard11/SD3/AM6/BM10, which allows to get an extra DC ( really the power comes from BM)

Yes they should be allowed. Not only there is no balance concern but it is also the only not evil PRC ( Shadow Adept, Red wizard, Blood Magus ) that allows you to have CL beyond your HD

M3nt M3nt M3nt...don't you know?

Alignment: Any non-good

Alignment: Any non-good

Alignment: Any non Lawful

you are telling me i should play a good aligned BM if i want to get extra CL... ok you proved my point

We can have a fun day going back and forth over DCs, mechanical whatnots and Alignment reasons, but really, it is a Role-play reason. Why have any specific PrCs of any type when we take down restrictions that exist to establish ROLE-PLAY REASONS for being any PrC or Class, and then, wait for it...actually RPing your Character Sheet.

Nonetheless, getting Evasion, HiPS and CL above 30 is pretty much reason to just play this build and no other if you want to a powerful caster...even if it is just one build.

But hey...don't take my argument in consideration. The Server is already losing Players by the handful from poor decisions made by Staff, so why not go ahead with another one?!?!

I have yet to see any argument of why it is a bad idea, other than throwing generics feats in the air or criticising the staff ..

Show me a build that would be too powerful with AM in it and can not be more powerful with other classes. Or is it not mechanics you want t argue about?