Remove Archmage Class Restrictions

[Sylael]

The Server is already losing Players by the handful from poor decisions made by Staff, so why not go ahead with another one?!?!

Really? Just the other day the server was full. I have even seen logins from players i havent seen in a few years. I'd say its on the rebound.

[Ariella]

Also anything over BM 5 turns your character evil, Mind you that does not match PnP either but that's a different argument. Obviously you can't be both good and powerful, You spend to much time prancing around the woods chasing butterfly's and saving the fluffy creatures.

The servers numbers has nothing to do with the staff, Simply the constant ddos making it hard to play. This is the first lot of staff in a while to bring forth active updates if anything its going to go the other way.

[Steve]

you are telling me i should play a good aligned BM if i want to get extra CL... ok you proved my point

No. I'm telling you that BM is a bull shit, lightly RP'd PrC that was brought onto BGTSCC in order to make Casters far more powerful than they need to be. As well, it's far too easy to RP the Class as Good/Neutral and...wait for it...avoiding the lvl 5 insta-Evil swing, BUT STILL GETTING PLENTY OF BONUS.

I have yet to see any argument of why it is a bad idea, other than throwing generics feats in the air or criticising the staff ..

Show me a build that would be too powerful with AM in it and can not be more powerful with other classes. Or is it not mechanics you want t argue about?

Again: Evasion +/- HiPS. You yourself have spoken often of how Evasion is a necessary Feat if you want your Build to solo the Bosses of this Server. Not to mention PvP use.

Arch Mage provides Arcanes with a specialization of Spells and Spell Power in order to boost their variety and arcane power.

And now, you've gone to "too powerful" as an argument, when Casters, before and now especially after the Big Update, are far far far too powerful as it is.

Well, except for when compared to Monks. But don't look there....

Mechanics are an issue, and if you want to say combining Arch Mage with Evasion/HiPS is not just exponentially making Arcane Casters more uber, than fine: remove the restrictions cause I'll take full advantage of it.

But more importantly: Role-play. People build not for the RP factor of a PrC, but for the mechanical power. Players say all the time "can you make this or that Class/PrC better (re: more powerful) cause I'd like to play it but I can't PAWN LOOTZ like the others, and I want to." RP of the Class/PrC and the sheet seems to be the least defining factor of choosing a Class/PrC—it is the mechanical power, and removing restrictions simply makes it easier to forget the RP aspect.

Maybe I play/experience this Server in a bubble, but...in the last weeks since the Big Update, I've talked many times with 2 Guild Leaders, QC members, and/or Players who have been dedicated and invested RP'ers who are either quitting, have quit, or are so frustrated by the changes—and how they directly effect their PCs—that their trust in the direction of the Server is nearly or completely gone.

Maybe that entertains and makes some of you happy, but for me, that is depressing.

[Rhifox]

DnD has never been balanced. This is a setting and game system that coined the linear warriors and quadratic wizards trope, you are never going to not have casters be more powerful at higher levels (just like melee will always be superior at lower levels). Attempting to balance it is an exercise in futility. The only thing you can really do is give people more options, and let them go at it as they want. Some people will be more powerful, some people less. That's fine.

More classes provides more character options (that's the whole point of multiple classes). Less restrictions provide more character options. Ideally, this should be used to build fitting RP combinations, but lots of people who see it only as a way to increase their power. However, a lot of those people don't even actually do any RP as it is, so I'm not sure how much that even matters. Your ability to solo bosses or whatever doesn't affect the world and so I don't know why there is any reason to balance around this.

As far as blood mage goes, isn't the point of the class to be the pursuit of greater power at the expense of ethical concerns? So why shouldn't it be powerful? If it's lightly RPed, it's lightly RPed from both angles, since it's very easy for people to notice a blood mage's abilities and call them out on it.

[mrm3ntalist]

Again: Evasion +/- HiPS. You yourself have spoken often of how Evasion is a necessary Feat if you want your Build to solo the Bosses of this Server. Not to mention PvP use.

Arch Mage provides Arcanes with a specialization of Spells and Spell Power in order to boost their variety and arcane power.

And now, you've gone to "too powerful" as an argument, when Casters, before and now especially after the Big Update, are far far far too powerful as it is.
Well, except for when compared to Monks. But don't look there....

Mechanics are an issue, and if you want to say combining Arch Mage with Evasion/HiPS is not just exponentially making Arcane Casters more uber, than fine: remove the restrictions cause I'll take full advantage of it.

I know how powerful those feats are. But this is a generic statement. Mechanicaly an Archmage getting access to those feats, is not more powerful than any other build getting it. As I said before, show me how Archmage and Hips for example is more powerfull than the other builds wizard + hips we currently have

Show me how you wil ltake advantage of it and i will make you a more powerful build without Archmage.

But more importantly: Role-play. People build not for the RP factor of a PrC, but for the mechanical power. Players say all the time "can you make this or that Class/PrC better (re: more powerful) cause I'd like to play it but I can't PAWN LOOTZ like the others, and I want to." RP of the Class/PrC and the sheet seems to be the least defining factor of choosing a Class/PrC—it is the mechanical power, and removing restrictions simply makes it easier to forget the RP aspect.

If there is a roleplay reason forArchmage to be class restricted I dont know. That is another side of this argument that i cant argue about it because i dont know it.

Maybe I play/experience this Server in a bubble, but...in the last weeks since the Big Update, I've talked many times with 2 Guild Leaders, QC members, and/or Players who have been dedicated and invested RP'ers who are either quitting, have quit, or are so frustrated by the changes—and how they directly effect their PCs—that their trust in the direction of the Server is nearly or completely gone.

Maybe that entertains and makes some of you happy, but for me, that is depressing.

We all know the issues with this update. I have very good friends that stopped playing. That is done though, it has happened. We work to make things better now. I hope you are not suggesting for no more changes to happen.

[Nayriak]

Hello,

Curious if this is being discussed as a possibility?

[mrm3ntalist]

Hello,

Curious if this is being discussed as a possibility?

It is being discussed in the QC forums. DM input is needed.

[DM Golem]

The delay is on our side (or more accurately, my side) as QC have done their bit. We'll discuss and come to a view

[Nayriak]

Thank you for the prompt response!

[Hawke]

I have some comments.

First off, Hierophant is super uber powerful with none of the downsides of archmage (it's arcane equivalent). PnP didn't allow for spell progression (but for caster level progression only). Yet, here we are. Zero negatives for taking this very very powerful PrC for divine characters.

Archmage has some ridiculous requirements to just take it, but it does make sense. You need Two Feats and only take spellcasting classes. Could this be lightened up? Sure. Does it need to be? No.

Archmage requiring you to lose a spell every high arcana is harsh. But it is in the PnP rules, because of what the class was.... Yet, we downgrade it so much to where we make it 10 level instead of 5 and still lose 5 spells (if we go full 10 levels). That is ridiculous. If we are going to mirror PnP, lets do it. Make AM 5 levels, keep the loss of spells and hey, we are golden.

Blood Magus. Everyone screams about how powerful this class is. Wah wah. You can still be Good alignment and be a level 10 blood magus. Erupting out of your enemy in a bloody mess isn't bad, if it is for a good cause. Not that it works anyways. The class isn't powerful, but it does give some different utilities, which is nice. Oh you want +3 CL? Well now you run the risk of having the angry mob of peasants with torches and pitchforks chasing you around if you are not careful.

With great power and all that nonsense.

A wizard/sorcerer/druid/cleric/favored soul/bard (maybe spirit shaman) are all POWERFUL! Does not take a PrC to make them even stronger than they are already. All the PrCs do is allow us to play these base classes in a different way.

If we want to badmouth those who do not RP their character sheet, either the DMs enforce it, or ignore those people. Getting mad at them for not RPing their sheet isn't going to make the pot of gold appear at the end of the rainbow.


TLDR: Hierophant needs to be taken down a peg to come in power more with the other PrCs. 1 feat is NOT enough to justify a class like that. ASOC has 3. Blood Magus has 1 feat (but has 8/10 caster progression), AM 2 feats plus class restriction, PM no feats but 6/10 progression.

Just like my Half Orc post... balance is needed to bring things a little closer together.

[TheKai]

The delay is on our side (or more accurately, my side) as QC have done their bit. We'll discuss and come to a view

Good morning. Just curious if anything was reached in regards to this decision?

[mrm3ntalist]

The delay is on our side (or more accurately, my side) as QC have done their bit. We'll discuss and come to a view

Good morning. Just curious if anything was reached in regards to this decision?

Very soon

[TheKai]

The delay is on our side (or more accurately, my side) as QC have done their bit. We'll discuss and come to a view

Good morning. Just curious if anything was reached in regards to this decision?

Very soon

Thanks m3nt!

[Beachgamer]

Good day,

Any update on this? Not saying it is, but if a HIPsing Archmage is the cause of concern, can't the ruling be against an Archmage having HIPs? Similiar to the monk being unable to cross class with druid?

[TheKai]

Bump