Bard build - help needed

[duracele]

I put this together and would like to hear sugestions about it. I sacrifice 1 ac and some investment in dexterity but get improved knockdown by skipping medium armors.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?237606

Here i took on of Thorsons builds, changed race and a few feats to get an edm bard.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?238558

[AC81]

Is what you're giving up worth the extra strength? I'd say not even close.

[Duster47]

I am not sure you get access to the full bard inspiration and spell abilities with only 13 CHA. IIRC, you need 16 CHA to get the L6 spells.

[Theodore01]

I am not sure you get access to the full bard inspiration and spell abilities with only 13 CHA. IIRC, you need 16 CHA to get the L6 spells.

Why what was changed here ?
It did work well before with a +3 Cha item.

[TheKai]

He's probably going to use a +3 cha item to get bard spell levels 4, 5, 6

[duracele]

Yes i would use a +3 item.
@AC81 a blackguard split grants charisma on saves. I would have to follow that with edm. I am a bit tired of that. So i think i know what i loose here. I am not sure about gains though. Better ab, one more in inspire song?
Comments on the usefulness of kockdown anyone?

[AC81]

Knockdown is great but I'd say hos damage will be lacking. With no power arttack or edm he is relying on buffs? If he 2- hands I guess that is +18, + another 6 for inspire, with buffs I guess he could hit low to mid 30's per hit (and you'd need a good weapon). It's just you said Forsuns damage felt lacking, this guys will be less.

[mrm3ntalist]

That needs PA/IPA badly. Either in place of knockdown/impknockdown or in place of a couple GR STRs

[Thorsson]

If you drop Knockdown, lower Int to 12 & Dex to 13, up Con to 12 and Cha to 15, take Weapon Focus & Battle Caster, Practiced Spellcaster and 4 DC levels you can add 2 to your AB, 46 HPs, better Saves (16 Fort vs 11) and more spells.

Drop 2 Great Strs and add PA/IPA. With your AB it should be no problem having IPA always on.

[duracele]

I changed the first build to get evasion from whirling dervish. also added diss chord levels.
I loose a lot and still he does not get uber strength. I put up his stats for a mith bp and +3 stat items where needed. Although it might be better to get battle caster as an extra feat from dc and go with fp.
I made a mess out of the second build by using it on drow but it is for a remake so has to be drow. I doubt its wise to stop at cl20 anyway so i will probably have to overdo it completely. I suck at building. hälp!

[Thorsson]

You won't get uber strength whatever you do, but you get decent strength. There are a couple of issues here:

1. Is it worthwhile taking WD for Evasion, given the useless Feats you have to take? A good Bard doesn't need Expose Weakness to hit. OFC it's always handy, but you're using 3 Feats to get it.

2. You don't really need Battle Caster. I'd tend to take Dex to 15 and you can without the need for Hide/MS, by dropping 2 points of Int.

You could consider Divine Champion levels. That's one Epic and one pre-Epic Feat.

Anyway on BGTSCC no Song of the Heart and no extra Feats for Dissonant Chord. It does get Skill Focus Perform though, which makes WD even more pointless.

The other thing is whether Dissonant Chord is worth it - you lose 2 Epic Bard Feats to get it.

Compare: http://nwn2db.com/build/?239582

[Theodore01]

Would take KD for dodge, even more as there is a dodge cloak in the UD.
And take armor skin (or blindfight) for one STR and cast bulls.

[Thorsson]

Would take KD for dodge, even more as there is a dodge cloak in the UD.
And take armor skin (or blindfight) for one STR and cast bulls.

1. Don't disagree; wasn't aware of the cloak. BF is another option.

2. If you can spare the level 2 spell slot then do so. However, taking BF is a wash - you lose 1 spell but need to take another. I see that as a negative, because you will always need Bull's, but BF is situational. It's harder to argue against more AC, but there are a lot of useful spells at level 2 - I decided to keep Heroism, even with access to Greater, because you can run around with it up (and that helps your skills constantly as well).

[duracele]

Dodge was prereq for wd. I am honestly confused here. You are elaborating on feat blindfight vs. the spell blindsight? Their mechanics are very different i think. Blindsight lets you see invi creatures whereas the feat helps against concealment. As for heroism. I found gh extended has fantastic duration. Never felt the need for the lesser version. Anyway i decided to go bard 26 or 27 with a splash of either cleric or blackguard. bg is obviously wonderful for the saves whereas cleric would give me evasion (and require my char to worship another god, meh). Both are very fragile hp wise but i wanted to maximize the edm benefits.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?239637
http://nwn2db.com/build/?239641

[Thorsson]

No I'm not talking about Blindsight, I'm talking about this:

Heartfire
Caster Level(s): Bard 2, Druid 2
Innate Level: 2
School: Evocation
Descriptor(s): [Light, Fire]
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area of Effect / Target: Living creatures within a 5-ft.-radius burst
Duration: 1 round/level
Save: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness, blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. In addition, if they fail a Fortitude save, affected creatures take 1d4 points of fire damage each round as their passions manifest as physically damaging fire. Creatures that make a successful Fortitude save take only half damage each round for the duration of the spell (minimum 1 point per round).