[suggestion] Bringing the Underdark back to life

[Lux]

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It seems like these same arguments are recycled every year, maybe two. We need more areas, more classes, more DMs. If only _____, then the underdark will flourish.

Aside from a few brief spurts, the UD has always suffered, and I don't see any light at the end of those endlessly dark tunnels.

My suggestion to "fix" the underdark would be to turn things on their head. Use Sshamath for DM events. Drow and Duergar for DM spawns. Use all of the areas, quests, and hours and hours of work spent on development for the good of the majority.

Let the Llolthites take over. I don't know what the setting is supposed to be at this time and in this region, so I don't know how much allowance there is for changing it. Does anyone know? I for one would prefer a traditional setting and if I know there's allowance for it I'd be interested in scheming for it.

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The entire auction system needs to be changed. Underdark and surface should be separate.

What?

Yes.

Then..

..the underdark needs to be "accessible" to level 15+. As mentioned before, an in-between city, that then has the big maze beyond it to get to, so Sshamath requires level 24+ or whatever it is.

Then the quests simply need to be given flags where people who started surface can't do UD quests, and visa versa.

I really don't see what the big deal would be if surfacers went grinding in the underdark Crypts or underdarks in the xvart village. I really don't. More easy auto PvP.... cool.

I like this idea, though I do wonder if allowing that might create porportion issues since the surface is well populated and the underdark is not. I.e., if too many surfacers routinely take daring outings to the underdark and gank their low levels.


I think it's be cool if some maps were blacked out like the minotaur caves. I haven't explored the entire Underdark so I don't know if there are any (are there?). It would certainly add to the atmosphere.

[Calantyr]

Could we not have surface areas like towns populated by killable humans/elfs where Underdark characters could raid? Surface players wouldn't have a reason to go there (unless they were evil and wanted to kill peasants), but Underdark players could go kill the weak rivven without risk of being labled player-killers.

I'm thinking surface NPC's that are already flagged as hostile to avoid the problems that occur with factions turning hostile server-wide. A side effect would be surface PC's would also be attacked if they went there, so OOC it would offer a good reason for UD/Surface players not to grind in the same area.

If these were high-level areas it would give UD players a surface 'end-game' without relying on player conflict. Not an ideal solution but it may help.

[TheKai]

...find a group of 5 Players that can be online at the same time regularly, and then start a storyline together. That small-scale support and enjoyment will make the UD—like it does on the Surface—come alive...because you're doing it for yourself, making it happen for yourself.

This. A group of us did this last year with the Schools of Magic. It was quite fun until RL got into the way

[joleda]

There are non-PVP alternatives. Create a copy of a few zones on the Surface that Underdarkians can travel to and fill them with humanoid type NPC opponents. These areas act as doppelgangers in the sense that they are Surface zones that Surfacers can't access without DM intervention. All that would need to be done is change the mobs. I know that isn't trivial.

For example, the BG graveyard and farmland areas could be filled with Flaming Fist and BG guards as NPC'S.

Another example is coming up through Durlag's tower and raiding the areas outside the Hin city or Beregost.

[Blackman D]

the UD is definitely lacking in epic content, so a NPC village for raiding would help a lot

and it could literally be a copy/paste of an existing one and add a drow raiding party on one of the maps that takes you there and back by caravan, wouldnt have to worry about finding a place to put it

and it would of course have to be a night raid

[Darradarljod]

I can see it now. Burninating the countryside.

[BigJ]

Interesting reading, my own view is if not being able to easily get to the surface is all that prevents you playing drow, then you're probably not wanting to play drow to BE drow but just be another unique (+stat) race on the surface.

Cubicle + Co have done some great work over the last year both in expanding and updating areas, just a few more tweaks is all that's needed really (Does anyone go the Kobold area? It seems a good zone). Though the NPC surface village thing sounds interesting it would have to be some random nameless place, not a real place (or copy) of the surface as would just be weird it continually getting raided, especially if it becomes an epic grinding zone.

On the subject of raids, from what I've read on this server no matter how well it starts it has never ended well and eventually becomes about winning and ego prodding. The Gray Orcs spring to mind, not just drow.

TBH, there is nothing stopping us now from arranging surface to UD relations (ie Thayans and Zhents) or confrontations with other factions, just takes a little coordinating.

To many paragraphs already, other points:

1) UD is hard, it should stay that way. You have be smart to survive (or at very least not stupid)
2) The Schools hold so much potential if fleshed out more. All your allies + enemies in close proximity makes for good RP and good stories. Story is what attracts, you can hack and slash anywhere.
3) Sshamath itself is full of rich culture to dive into. With free religious practise (albeit low on the pecking order in Sshamath) and as a OPEN trade city its a hotpot of races driven by greed, a veritable Waterdeep.
4) Indentured Slavery - Some of the best RP I've had have been with players of these. I don't think some people realise slaves are actually protected in Sshamath, unless of course from a lesser species
5) A couple more UD classes may help but for which base classes/play styles? I feel this type of request never ends as there's always a request for more.

Advice titbits -
- Play both surface chars and UD, it helps when UD is empty sometimes.
- Don't be Evil even if you are. The UD races don't see themselves as evil, don't make a point of trying to be evil, just be harsh.
- Laws matter in Sshamath, but its who you know that counts. Don't be afraid to join a faction, even an NPC one, there are lots to choose from.
- Don't be afraid to lose a char. The risk of perma is higher in the UD but don't let it restrict you.

Finally, Sshamath is beautiful. Even now I still occasionally take one of my chars to the top of the spiral column and look out across the city. The builders did a really good job of melding the zones into one view. If you do nothing else in the UD, do that

BigJ

[joleda]

I mentioned existing zones since using them would be easier than making a new zone. One could use a copy of the areas outside BG city and put in the horizon background of mountains and call it Rothe Valley or Hidden Vale or something Elfy. Then it wouldn't have to be connected to BG, even symbolically.

I agree, the Underdark should be difficult!

I think that I'm the type of player to pull off playing a slave/servant. The Tanarukk is only race that would be "allowed" and even then it's tricky. IIRC, since the other races are capable of casting magic, they cannot be enslaved in Sshamath.

I love playing non-magical grunt classes and I just can't make a Tanarukk without having that feeling that I'm gimping myself. I hate to bring up powerbuilding and mechanics, but the Underdark was created with the Drow in mind, not the Tanarukk. With the Underdark so empty, one will spend quite a bit of time alone and mechanical power is important.

Check out this page on Tanarukks.
Now compare to the version we have on BG:TSCC.

They are worse at every role than the other Underdark races due to a number of reasons including prestige classes, spell resistances, and racial immunities. A Duergar is a better tank, a Svirfneblin is a better scout, and a Drow is a much better caster. Unless you're going for Epic Damage Reduction, I would argue that the Drow make a better Underdark warrior due to having more skillpoints. The only things the Tanarukk have are +1 AC and Scent. They also start with the Martial Weapons feat! Anyway, they have no shtick of their own. I would buff the Tanarukk to ECL 2 by giving them a total of +2 AC and giving them Track to go along with their Scent. Maybe give them one of those background feats given to the Half-Orc or give them a big bonus to Intimidate since their Charisma is junk. I would also modify the Reach the Blaze racial since it's DC is modified by Charisma or give them a larger resistance to fire. Lastly, I'd give them access to Dwarven Battlerager. Maybe then people will roll up the melee?

One last prestige class suggestion. The first link I supplied talks about something called "battle gauntlets" and how some Tanarukks would fight each other without armor to prove who tougher. Are there any plans to add a Monk prestige class? Would it fit in with the demon-orc society?

[NeOmega]

...find a group of 5 Players that can be online at the same time regularly, and then start a storyline together. That small-scale support and enjoyment will make the UD—like it does on the Surface—come alive...because you're doing it for yourself, making it happen for yourself.

This. A group of us did this last year with the Schools of Magic. It was quite fun until RL got into the way

RL will always get in the way on this server, that is why "RP, not mechanics" sounds liek an agreeable solution, but never really is.

[BigJ]

IIRC, since the other races are capable of casting magic, they cannot be enslaved in Sshamath.

Cannot be ENslaved, but can become Indentured Slave/servant. This is basically a contract that says someone owns you (for all intents and purposes) for a period of time. These contacts can be bought and sold.

You cannot mistreat indentured like a true slave (Ie. Sacrifice, throw on the Barbie etc) but you can kick them about like a low life servant, or treat them well and good .

Tanarukk - I can't make my mind up about the stats, they seem about the same as the other +1 Genasi. +2 STR / +DEX seems aimed at a dual wielder with some extra damage from STR (Say a ranger). +1 ac is nice, not sure another +1 AC is worth the extra XP hit on your kills. Track you get from some classes anyway. Not sure.

BigJ

[joleda]

I agree the Tanarukk looks great for a Ranger. Starting with 6 WIS and 7 INT also bothers me. I like my Rangers to be able to cast spells without help from items. I like all of my toons to have Combat Expertise. The only caster that I would consider playing is the Ranger, so I like to have the ability to increase my defenses when necessary, without the need for UMD. Using those requirements, the Svirfneblin actually has very comparable stats to the Tanarukk since the Svirfneblin doesn't need to spend as many points on INT or WIS to meet my goals. At the end of the day, ECL just means it takes about 10% longer to level, and I'm in no hurry.

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the thread. I was just stating why I haven't been down there much lately. I've been trying to make a comeback to this game, but stuff keeps happening IRL.

I've got a few Tanarukk meatshield build ideas ready to go, complete with Swift Tracker. One day when I have time...

Does anyone actually play in the Underdark anymore? I've logged on a few times and nobody shows up on the scry.

[Blackman D]

there are people down there, lowbies and epics alike but the UD is really spread out time wise that people are on

[NeOmega]

(Does anyone go the Kobold area? It seems a good zone).

I do sometimes. It's ok... ....but feels a tad more difficult than the XP and treasure gives.

[HappyDays]

Destroy the OOC wall between the underdark and the surface and it will become alive.

Let surfacers play in the underdark, and underdark toons play on the surface. By play, I mean explore, loot, grind, whatever. Encourage interaction and accidental encounter, rather then banning it.

[freekender]

(Does anyone go the Kobold area? It seems a good zone).

I do sometimes. It's ok... ....but feels a tad more difficult than the XP and treasure gives.

If you are referring to the kobold stronghold close to Sshamath, I have always had the feeling that that area CR should be raised. If you don't gather a party of at least three people, it's very difficult to complete. That plus the usually lack of people in the UD, and even more lack of low level people (I mean lvl10 or less), makes the area to not be visited frecuently. Two people could do it once they can equip a regen cloak, which have 5-7 lvl restriction, but then the xp is too low to even consider it. A 5-7 CR (or a bit higher) could bring some extra fun to the low levels. Doing goblins again and again and again gets too boring after some time.