Temple of the Kossuth: still does not have blessing script

[NegInfinity]

I think I reported this a year ago.

Assuming that blessings are still in-game, the altar in the temple doesn't grant them.

[Duster47]

Updated two alters to use a dialog. Try it again after the next area update (soon).

[Duster47]

Is this working now since 4/17 update?

[Bad Omens]

I will check myself and report back.

Might I say, the location of this Temple is really suspect.
Perhaps it could be moved to the Grey Peaks?

I know it is connected to the Undead Lair (which is really weird in and of itself since one of Kossuth's domains is healing) but I am sure that can be unconnected easily enough with an exit out to the Gullykin Area.

[NegInfinity]

I will check myself and report back.

Might I say, the location of this Temple is really suspect.
Perhaps it could be moved to the Grey Peaks?

I know it is connected to the Undead Lair (which is really weird in and of itself since one of Kossuth's domains is healing) but I am sure that can be unconnected easily enough with an exit out to the Gullykin Area.

FR campaign settings lists following domains for Kossuth:
Destruction, Renewal, Suffering and Fire.
Kossuth also sponsors blackguards ( http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kurgoth_Hellspawn ).

I'd rather not see it moved (that'll be lots of work for nothing), because gray peaks have fire giants, and that would make visiting the temple harder for low-levels, plus relocation of church would need RP reason. It would be better idea to make a temple of iistiishia somewhere instead of moving the temple of kossuth.

[Bad Omens]

I will check myself and report back.

Might I say, the location of this Temple is really suspect.
Perhaps it could be moved to the Grey Peaks?

I know it is connected to the Undead Lair (which is really weird in and of itself since one of Kossuth's domains is healing) but I am sure that can be unconnected easily enough with an exit out to the Gullykin Area.

FR campaign settings lists following domains for Kossuth:
Destruction, Renewal, Suffering and Fire.
Kossuth also sponsors blackguards ( http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kurgoth_Hellspawn ).

I'd rather not see it moved (that'll be lots of work for nothing), because gray peaks have fire giants, and that would make visiting the temple harder for low-levels, plus relocation of church would need RP reason. It would be better idea to make a temple of iistiishia somewhere instead of moving the temple of kossuth.

If Renewal is one of his domains, then I would say that is equally justifying a non-undead friendly cleric. There is nothing renewing about un-death. In the eternal cycle of life, birth is the epitome of renewal, not death.

Temple of Kossuth near Gullykin does not make RP sense. Temple of Kossuth at the base of the Gray Peaks, before entering hostile territory does. There has been a precedence for this being done before, such as the Temple of Auril being moved to the Cloud Peaks, a much more treacherous journey then the 200 gold you would need to pay to get to the base of the Gray Peaks. It also creates greater server synergy, God of Cold located in bitterly cold southern Mountain Pass, God of Fire located in scorching Mountain Pass in the North. It just makes more sense.

Also, Kossuth is a neutral God, anyone, good (be it Lawful Ranger), or evil (be it Blackguard), can worship him. So, I don't know what your point is with the Fire Giant Fiend?

[Endelyon]

I will check myself and report back.

Might I say, the location of this Temple is really suspect.
Perhaps it could be moved to the Grey Peaks?

I know it is connected to the Undead Lair (which is really weird in and of itself since one of Kossuth's domains is healing) but I am sure that can be unconnected easily enough with an exit out to the Gullykin Area.

FR campaign settings lists following domains for Kossuth:
Destruction, Renewal, Suffering and Fire.
Kossuth also sponsors blackguards ( http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kurgoth_Hellspawn ).

I'd rather not see it moved (that'll be lots of work for nothing), because gray peaks have fire giants, and that would make visiting the temple harder for low-levels, plus relocation of church would need RP reason. It would be better idea to make a temple of iistiishia somewhere instead of moving the temple of kossuth.

If Renewal is one of his domains, then I would say that is equally justifying a non-undead friendly cleric. There is nothing renewing about un-death. In the eternal cycle of life, birth is the epitome of renewal, not death.

Temple of Kossuth near Gullykin does not make RP sense. Temple of Kossuth at the base of the Gray Peaks, before entering hostile territory does. There has been a precedence for this being done before, such as the Temple of Auril being moved to the Cloud Peaks, a much more treacherous journey then the 200 gold you would need to pay to get to the base of the Gray Peaks. It also creates greater server synergy, God of Cold located in bitterly cold southern Mountain Pass, God of Fire located in scorching Mountain Pass in the North. It just makes more sense.

Also, Kossuth is a neutral God, anyone, good (be it Lawful Ranger), or evil (be it Blackguard), can worship him. So, I don't know what your point is with the Fire Giant Fiend?

I'd rather not see any more interiors picked up and magically whisked across the Coast's landscape if we can keep from it. People have RPed in, about, and around the Temple of Kossuth on the Gullykin map for years. This type of thing creates a very awkward situation IC when suddenly your temple that was always there is no longer there and there's no particular explanation for its sudden disappearance.

Granted, this could all be explained by having the DMs contrive a plot that amounted in the destruction of the first temple and the foundation of the second, but frankly, that seems like an awful lot of work to just suit some kind of thematic sensibility.

[Bad Omens]

The DMs can always retcon the Temple ever being on the Gullykin map. All the RP accomplished at the temple would have been retained but that it happened in the Temple located in the Greypeaks. Unless there was RP'd a strong attendance for Sunday service amongst the Halflings of Gullykin, I don't think it's that big a deal.

[Blackman D]

i know i thought it was weird that it was in gullykin and not the greypeaks also

i would definitely side with the moving of the temple, same as the temple of auril being moved to a more obvious domain location

[Rhifox]

Just because fire giants have the word 'fire' in their name doesn't mean that a temple to a fire god can only fit there. A shrine to Kossuth could certainly be added there (just like there is one in the Thayan Enclave), but it doesn't require the removal of the temple from Gullykin.

If Renewal is one of his domains, then I would say that is equally justifying a non-undead friendly cleric. There is nothing renewing about un-death. In the eternal cycle of life, birth is the epitome of renewal, not death.

The eternal cycle of life is Istishia's thing, not Kossuth's. "Acknowledgment of change but holding to essential nature" is the dogma of water, not fire. Kossuth believes in surpassing what came before, not returning to it.

Kossuth does not care one way or the other about undead. He has the Renewal/Healing domains/spheres because his portfolio and dogma concerns purification through fire. Yes, birth is a natural form of renewal, (seen in such things as heavily-burned areas becoming highly fertile), but it's not the only kind of rebirth that exists. Death and later undeath can be seen as progression of purification. Death causes the body to dehydrate, making it more flammable and appealing to Kossuth's fire, which allows its impurities to be burned away so something greater can rise from the ashes. Life is one such thing that can arise, but that's not the only kind of rebirth. What Kossuth cares about is rising into a better state of being. Something that is able to be burned is able to be purified; if it's highly flammable it has his favor and if it succeeds in rising from the ashes, in any form, it rises better than it was before.

It should also be noted that the nation where Kossuth has the most significant following is Thay, which holds both Kossuth and Myrkul as its most prominent deities.

Honestly though, the Temple is not even supposed to be that close to it. There's quite a long way between the crypts and the temple according to the map. Where the temple is supposed to be is in the dry, desolate, dehydrated badlands filled with efreeti to the south of Gullykin.

IMO? If any change is to be made, it should be a new area in-between Gullykin and South of Beregost, which is just an arid, desolate badlands map with the Temple as its most prominent feature.

[Bad Omens]

Rhifox,

Where are you getting these "personal" beliefs of Kossuth from?
He is a very impersonal and mysterious figure from all that I am reading.
There is nothing in the link below that gets into "undead dehydration kindling"....

https://www.scribd.com/doc/23101609/AD- ... -Pantheons

[Rhifox]

Rhifox,

Where are you getting these "personal" beliefs of Kossuth from?
He is a very impersonal and mysterious figure from all that I am reading.
There is nothing in the link below that gets into "undead dehydration kindling"....

https://www.scribd.com/doc/23101609/AD- ... -Pantheons

A lot more details on him and his church is given in Faiths and Avatars, a 2nd edition book. In it, it says that successfully starting any fire means that Kossuth has shown favor, and that traitors to the church are dumped in water (and splashing Kossuthans is an insult). When things burn, it is to make way for rebirth and so is usually seen as a blessing by his adherents.

My comments about undead was simply an assumption. Nothing is said anywhere about his opinion about undead, which means he's likely not to care one way or the other about them (the Flaming Brazier in Thay has many, many dealings with undead, though). I posted my thoughts on the subject though as idle musings based on the kind of things promoted by his doctrine. And that is, that ascension and rebirth into a superior form is what he cares for, not whether something is natural or unnatural, living or unliving, or filling a role in an eternal cycle. The eternal cycle of life is stated to be Istishia's dogma. Kossuth doesn't care about fulfilling a cycle, he cares about advancement and power, moving forward, forward, forward, up, up, up. Kossuth's faith is hierarchical, not cyclical.

If what you meant was that since Kossuth doesn't tend to care about what his priests do, and so an individual priest or sect of Kossuthans might be anti-undead, then yes I suppose that could happen. I just don't think the Kossuth faith as a whole cares either way. The Flaming Brazier in Thay regularly deals with undead afterall, up to marching alongside them in battle. So there's no reason to me why the BG one being near a crypt should merit any special issue in my mind.

[Bad Omens]

Thank you for being honest regarding reference.

The Flaming Brazier being located in Thay would be subject to Zulkir Overlords.

So, if they were being impressed into service with Red Wizards who specialized in Necromancy, it would stand to reason the Kossuthians marching with Undead. I just don't see Kossuthians being promoters of Un-death however. It just doesn't stand to reason that the greatest element in the demise of Undead, is your Diety's calling. So, to have a Kossuthian Temple standing on top of an great palor of undead, including a pretty nasty Lich is kinda weird. I have always roleplayed that it was the Priests responsibility to hold the Undead and Lich at bay (but that's just how I RP it). To think that Kossuthian Priests not subject to an Tyrannical Arcanic Oligarchy would move to make pacts with Undead just seems strange. That's just me

[Rhifox]

Well I will agree that I don't think the Temple of Kossuth should be right next to the crypt honestly. While I don't think Kossuthans have any particular issue with undead, I don't see any reason for it to be next to the crypt either. (it certainly wouldn't be their own dead put there, since Kossuthans cremate their dead). And the map shows it clearly quite a long distance away, and when I was looking for the temple myself (being that I play a Kossuthan), I looked in the badlands area South of Beregost where the wyverns and the efreetis are, because I had presumed that was where the temple would be based on the map from the Atlas! I will echo what I said in an earlier post, that while I don't think it should get moved to Greypeaks, I would be interested in seeing its current location moved to something more accurate to the atlas map, placed further south of Gullykin in the badlands area.

With regard to the Flaming Brazier, they're not strictly under the authority of the Zulkirs and actually had to be bartered with to get them to fight. But their opponent in that case was also an undead army, so they were being asked to fight alongside one army of undead against another army of undead. The Kossuthans basically gave the answer of 'what's in it for us?', which is what I would expect from the church as one that treats acquisition of land, wealth, and power to be its primary concerns.

When rereading the bits in Unclean today in light of this topic, I did find a bit where they say that Kossuthans don't like to have their own followers raised into undeath (or at least, not the physical bodies). When Szass Tam remarks about raising armies from dead Thayans, the Kossuthan stated that the Kossuthans wanted no part in it because Kossuth demands his worshippers be cremated. Tam offered the Kossuthans an exemption for their own dead as one way of earning their loyalty for his campaign.

Either way they're certainly not promoters of undeath, yes. If you felt I was saying that they were promoting it then I apologize. That wasn't what I meant to say.

[Moltrazahn]

Yes! Move it to the mountains! Then I can enter the gullykin crypt and use the exit to kill firegiants! Several hundred miles north of gully kin!
. .. ... ....
Maybe the exit should just be the door to the present firetemple... come to think of it.