Petition: Remove/Lower Damage Reduction and why Dexers suck

[matelener]

Evasion working in heavy and medium armor has been broken for so long that the server has been balanced around this fact. Fixing it would actually nerf non-magical characters since Evasion is "needed" in epic levels.

What's hilarious to me is that some bosses have Reflex Save abilities which still deal damage on succesful saves to characters with evasion (but like 25% of the original amount). From the top of my head, I remember dragon breaths are like that. The designers wanted to counteract everyone having evasion but they forgot that 50 damage to a d10 hit dice char is different than to a d6 hit dice rogue.

[ragnarok1983]

Bumping the one interesting idea the OP suggested mid-thread:

For applicable mobs, why not have them have Damage Immunity __% instead of just straight Damage Reduction?

[joleda]

What would be an appropriate substitution?

Just to start the conversation.... Substitute each 1/- with a 5% reduction? A damage reduction of 5/- is replaced by 25% damage reduction? 10/- us replaced by 50% and 15/- is replaced by 75%? Is that too much?

[ragnarok1983]

*shrugs* me personally, I would take your suggestion and divide it by about 2 or 3.

That being said, there are mobs that completely deserve damage reduction due to creature our class type..

The main point is that the idea is certainly (generally) worth consideration.

[ragnarok1983]

The suggestion boils down to changing something that removes a some of damage all the time for something that prevents all the damage some of the time.

Maintains the challenge --- but keeps builds like his from being completely obsolete. This type of idea prevents the *need* for a powerbuild.

I like things that support non-specialized-builds. Thus my sudden and large support for this suggestion.

[joleda]

... I like things that support non-specialized-builds. Thus my sudden and large support for this suggestion.

As do I, since I tend to play low damage meatshields.

[Steve]

Have any of you used, with regularity, a weapon that as a % percentage-to-hit effect? Like stun/daze/etc? If so, you would know that the NWN2 engine does a horrible job of calculating percentages, as in, more often than not, a percentage effect can rarely hit, then, it will hit a bunch of times in a row. Weird stuff like that.

I use a 10% on hit weapon, and it's a joke, to be actually effective. So conversely, if a mob had 10% damage reduction vs. 4–6 attacks per round, that percentage would probably totally fail to protect the mob, where DR doesn't.

I'm not saying DR is what SHOULD be there, more that % immunity need to be pretty high, like 50%, else the challenge will be utterly absent.

[Thorsson]

I think that people were meaning a % of your damage reduced on every attack, rather than the damage was cancelled part of the time. Can that actually be done?

[Steve]

There is Damage Immunity (percentage), Damage Reduction (value/type), and Damage Resistance (type x/–).

Seems like Damage Immunity is not the same as %-onhit effects (which probably a good thing).

Now, if Bosses and high-level mobs have any of these, it must mean they do so in order to provide a limited means of killing the monster/creature, and that should not be "generalized" so that any type of build or weapon user or dmg can kill it. You know, it's why killing Fire Giants with a Frost Mage is so much fun!

But if Bosses and high-level mobs are 100% Sneak Attack Immune, that is gonna suck eggs for a DEX-based build, which most have sneak attack. If it is a DEX based build that has no SA, then the average base attack is going to be what...around 25–30 (if you know how to build).

Do bosses and high-level mobs have 20 DR of either type? And is it across the board for all dmg types? Or is the situation that a PC/Player needs to "figure out" how to actually kill this monster/creature? Or is it a situation where there is simply not enough variety in Areas on this Server?

[NegInfinity]

Bumping the one interesting idea the OP suggested mid-thread:

For applicable mobs, why not have them have Damage Immunity __% instead of just straight Damage Reduction?

Only if it applies to homebrewed mobs/bosses.

For example, level 1 zombie should still have DR 5/slashing. If a char is trying to fight those with piercing weapons, it is character's fault. If the mob is casting Stoneskin, it gets normal stoneskin DR, and if it has subtype that is immune to criticasl, it should remain immune to criticals.

Also, this is a wrong forum for petitions. Petitions belong to feedback section.

[ragnarok1983]

Bumping the one interesting idea the OP suggested mid-thread:

For applicable mobs, why not have them have Damage Immunity __% instead of just straight Damage Reduction?

Only if it applies to homebrewed mobs/bosses.

For example, level 1 zombie should still have DR 5/slashing. If a char is trying to fight those with piercing weapons, it is character's fault. If the mob is casting Stoneskin, it gets normal stoneskin DR, and if it has subtype that is immune to criticasl, it should remain immune to criticals.

Also, this is a wrong forum for petitions. Petitions belong to feedback section.

That's why I mentioned the comment about DR being appropriate for some creatures/classes/(and spells should be included, like in you're example). But some of these modified mobs on the server do have high dr for... Well... Powerbuild reasons. For those mobs, the OP has a point.

[Vhaeraun Baen're]

3. Low AC as a dexer, especially when dual-wielding.

Disagree. Dex'ers can have very high AC. A dedicated dex'er will get 30 dex easily, usually more like 32 to 34. This means +11 or 12 AC. Add in a +4 Armour item and you are equal to or ahead of a 16 dex mithral fullplate wearing pc (8 base +3dex +4 Armour). The benefit with dex'ers is that they won't need power attack for damage, so should pick ICE for another 6 AC. If needed they can also use a shield (just like a str fighter). Granted, a str-fighter can also pick ICE, but then they lose damage - a dex-fighter doesn't.

Disagreeing doesn't change facts. starting at 20 dex, which not all dex builds do, you cap at 27 dex at lv 30. Add in a +3 stat item and you're at 30 dex which is +10 AC. You still need to dip 2 epic feats for 2 more dex just to hit 11AC aka mithral full plate. Thats a giant investment in order to hit the AC that every strength fighter can get without any investment.

And using ICE on a dual wielding build... do you ever actually want to hit anything?

[The Whistler]

Thats a giant investment in order to hit the AC that every strength fighter can get without any investment.

Except, y'know, 800k gold. LOL

[Thorsson]

Thats a giant investment in order to hit the AC that every strength fighter can get without any investment.

Except, y'know, 800k gold. LOL

Actually they get 11AC with MP. However they only get 9AC with normal plate. But in any case if you start with 20Dex, you don't necessarily end on 27. You can take some Great Dexes...

[Deathgrowl]

Thats a giant investment in order to hit the AC that every strength fighter can get without any investment.

Except, y'know, 800k gold. LOL

Actually they get 11AC with MP. However they only get 9AC with normal plate. But in any case if you start with 20Dex, you don't necessarily end on 27. You can take some Great Dexes...

With two feats, even a normal full plate has 11 AC, and you can even stop at 12 buffed dex.