Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

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NegInfinity
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Grimcheese wrote: Why do the only changes have to be in the outside world? Why can't the changes also be in your character, and do not need levels to show off?
When world reacts to your actions rewards them, it acknowledges your character's existence. Something happened because you played.

When the world does not react to your actions, it denies your character's existence and declares that your character is irrelevant. If you didn't play, you would get the same result - nothing changed.

If you RP in the forest but there's no one to see it, does your character exist?
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Grimcheese
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Grimcheese »

NegInfinity wrote: When world reacts to your actions rewards them, it acknowledges your character's existence. Something happened because you played.

When the world does not react to your actions, it denies your character's existence and declares that your character is irrelevant. If you didn't play, you would get the same result - nothing changed.

If you RP in the forest but there's no one to see it, does your character exist?
As long as I am in the world, I exist. As long as I play, and write, about my character, that character exists. To have the world return the favour is nice, but I don't look for the world to validate my characters' existence because I have already given that validation to them.

None of my characters changed the world as a whole, not in a tangible way (except maybe one). But I can safely say that the people who have known them have come out changed in their own ways. And for me, that's enough.

I've already said my piece, so I'll leave this topic be. I don't think it's covered anything really groundbreaking in the seven pages it's gone through.
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Maximvs
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Maximvs »

Why are you guys flipping out on drow when in the game Baldur's Gate I can walk around with Viconia my drow gurl and my 5 skeleton crew that I summoned with my paladin with no problem? If she was about to be burned at the stake, it's because those wanting such were worshipers of Beshaba, which is an evil goddess.
MmmmMMMMmmm, tasty humanz, hmmmmMMM!!!
mixafix
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by mixafix »

*Pulls up a chair and a supply of snacks*
NegInfinity
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Grimcheese wrote: As long as I am in the world, I exist. As long as I play, and write, about my character, that character exists.
If no one ever witnesses your character, then it does not exist - because even if you remove such character completely, that will make zero difference in the world.

You play to get something out of playing. When you get nothing out of playing, there's no reason to play. When you only roleplay with yourself, then there's no reason to play either - you could just write a book instead.

The most entertaining part of the game is seeing the action that you could not predict, especially when you're responsible for it indirectly. When your character cannot leave a dent anywhere in the world, it reduces chance of creating dominoe effect for this kind of situation - to zero.
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metaquad4
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by metaquad4 »

NegInfinity wrote: If no one ever witnesses your character, then it does not exist - because even if you remove such character completely, that will make zero difference in the world.

You play to get something out of playing. When you get nothing out of playing, there's no reason to play. When you only roleplay with yourself, then there's no reason to play either - you could just write a book instead.

The most entertaining part of the game is seeing the action that you could not predict, especially when you're responsible for it indirectly. When your character cannot leave a dent anywhere in the world, it reduces chance of creating dominoe effect for this kind of situation - to zero.
If you don't get anything out of your interactions with other PCs, as well as your character's effect on their own characters, and constantly crave DM/NPC attention then yes. You won't get much out of playing, unless you can get DM attention somehow every second. Most of us are content to effect other PCs, and have them effect us for most of the time. Even if you do get DM attention, unless you can stick with the same DM for a really long time and get very consistent RP, this likely won't happen to you (unless several DMs are coordinated with their NPCs and their interactions with you). Welcome the a persistent world RP server with more than you on it. If you absolutely require the validation of NPCs to enjoy yourself with anything less being a horrible waste of your time, then its probably not for you. Most of us are not like that, however. The rest of our characters will keep on existing.

Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoy DM attention as much as the next guy. I just don't require it to create a character, to impact other characters, to see those impacts, and/or to enjoy myself. DM attention is like getting a lovely present. I'm not going to sob, moan, and lament about how the world is cruel and unfair if it passes my by, but I'll jump for joy if it comes around.
Maximvs wrote:Why are you guys flipping out on drow when in the game Baldur's Gate I can walk around with Viconia my drow gurl and my 5 skeleton crew that I summoned with my paladin with no problem? If she was about to be burned at the stake, it's because those wanting such were worshipers of Beshaba, which is an evil goddess.
Can't tell if trolling or not....I really can't this time!

Maybe if you make a drow follower of Shar named Viconia, they'll let you in. Go ahead, give it a spin! I'll be watching with popcorn and a noose ;)
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)
NegInfinity
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by NegInfinity »

metaquad4 wrote: If you don't get anything out of your interactions with other PCs,
I sense hostility there. Might be wrong about it.
If there is hostility, it is misdirected.

I wasted enough time writing previous post. Go back and re-read it.

When I play, I want something to happen. When nothing ever happens when you play, or when you can predict every event, there's to reason to play.

Its not hard, is it?
metaquad4 wrote: Most of us
Also, don't use "US", please. It is "you", you're talking about yourself, and there's only one of you. "us" usually comes off as a cheap attempt to add weight to your post for no reason whatsoever.
metaquad4 wrote: I'm not going to sob, moan, and lament
(sarcasm)yes, and you're also totally humble too in addition to all your other awesome qualities(/sarcasm).

I know that differnet people enjoy different things, and I spent plenty of time trying to explain WHY some people want to level. It is not that is ia "right" or "wrong" way to play, it is just one way of the many.

Your post comes off as an attempt to do some cheap jabs and maybe even convince me that I'm a 'bad guy" because I enjoy those things and not some other things and because I want something to actually happen when I log on. Stuff like this belogns to kindergarten. If you're andult, then act like one, I can find enough of sophistry and logical gymnastics elswhere, and I don't want to deal with this nonsense HERE.

If you want "true roleplay", log on and roleplay. As I said before.
ragnarok1983
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by ragnarok1983 »

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Ghost
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Ghost »

It's getting warm here. Stop fanning the flames, or I will cover the thread with a fire blanket.
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Grimcheese
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Grimcheese »

NegInfinity wrote:If no one ever witnesses your character, then it does not exist - because even if you remove such character completely, that will make zero difference in the world.
You seem to be getting uncomfortably close to dictating if my characters who did not change the world or the people around them should exist or not...or, translated slightly differently, whether it counts as true roleplaying or not.

For me, existence is a state of being, not accomplishment. No matter how much or little they impact the world, because I believe they exist, they exist. Cogito ergo sum.
You play to get something out of playing.
Yes.
When you get nothing out of playing, there's no reason to play.


Yes.

However, what I look for, and take, from playing is evidently different from what you look for, given our responses. There's nothing wrong with that, and I am willing to live and let live, but I do not agree with the implication that your perspective is the only perspective that is valid and that I am wrong for adopting a different perspective on how I spend my time in-game.
When you only roleplay with yourself, then there's no reason to play either - you could just write a book instead.
Likewise, if all you seek is to validate your characters' existence with ripples and accomplishments, you can also write a book instead. You will quite literally have all the power to change the world, and interact with as many characters as you want that way, without the issues of warring perspectives, a disconnect between deeds and the display of them because of occupied builders/DMs, and other problems inherent in writing a story in a NWN2 PW.
The most entertaining part of the game is seeing the action that you could not predict, especially when you're responsible for it indirectly. When your character cannot leave a dent anywhere in the world, it reduces chance of creating dominoe effect for this kind of situation - to zero.
It is the most entertaining part of roleplaying, but it's not my raison d'roleplay (hohoho). If my characters have done nothing and changed nothing, that's fine. They've told their story to me, and while it is a story I wish could end differently, it is their story.

I don't seek to make a dent, or to produce a "domino" effect. If it happens, it's great, but if it doesn't happen, then I am happy for the opportunity to see my character's progress nonetheless.
I know that differnet people enjoy different things, and I spent plenty of time trying to explain WHY some people want to level. It is not that is ia "right" or "wrong" way to play, it is just one way of the many.

[...]

If you want "true roleplay", log on and roleplay. As I said before.
Overall, I agree with these. We'll put our money where our mouths are and agree to disagree. Is that acceptable? :)
NegInfinity
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Grimcheese wrote:then I am happy for the opportunity to see my character's progress nonetheless.
Here you go. This is a key point. Progress. Finding stuff, earnign gold, getting xp, making a dent or witnessing events you couldn't think of.

If none of that happens, no point in playing. hence the "hamster wheel" analogy -> you do something and there's no progress.

I hope that now you got my point.
Grimcheese wrote:Is that acceptable? :)
Sure. Your opinion is similar to mine anyway. "Progress".
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Grimcheese
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Grimcheese »

NegInfinity wrote:Here you go. This is a key point. Progress. Finding stuff, earnign gold, getting xp, making a dent or witnessing events you couldn't think of.

If none of that happens, no point in playing. hence the "hamster wheel" analogy -> you do something and there's no progress.

I hope that now you got my point.
I have gotten your point many of your posts ago; however, I wonder if you have actually gotten mine.

My idea of "progress" is different from yours. You may read the entirety of my previous post if you want a refresher, because I am not going to write the exact same thing in a different format! :lol:
Sure. Your opinion is similar to mine anyway. "Progress".
Indeed, but we just have different opinions on what "progress" means to each of us. That is what I request to "agree to disagree" on.
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