UMD or Search+Listen/Spot for Rogue-AT?

[sir_blacksoutalot]

I have a rogue in epic levels and am looking to RCR for some minor but essential tweaks. I could use some advice on skills. Thus far I've been pushing up Use Magic Device and am currently at about 19. But I find that a lot of items are still red to me, mostly from not being my class such as divine scrolls, martial weapons, or class-specific armor. Is my UMD skill just not high enough? And is it really worth pushing up to 30ish?

As an arcane trickster, I'm thinking I have enough casting abilities and am considering dropping the UMD in favor of more scout-type skills. Search plus Listen and Spot seem likely candidates. If I have say a spare 30 points to spread between those three, how should I best divvy up my skill points? I'm more focused on dungeon diving than PvP, which might make Search the front-runner, with maybe 5 points or so in Listen and Spot for flushing out sneakers in high-level dungeons.

Any tips would be most appreciated. Thanks.

[Planehopper]

My non-pro advice: search will save your life if you are skulking through dungeons regularly, some of those traps are brutal. Umd is/was a game changer (but someone else can jump in and say whether it is any more or not? thinking dispel changes and wand availability here).

Spot/Listen are nice but in my experience they are skills that really only shine when you go all in with them. A little dip here and there isn't going to pull out any equally-matched foes that really want to hide.

[NegInfinity]

Search, definitely. If you're arcane trickster, you'll be able to trigger many items and scrolls either way, and search is the ability that allows you to notice traps you'll be disarming.

Also, you'll be probably fine with only listen or only spot. That's my opinion, anyway. I prefer spot . Spot should work vs feint rolls, and spotted creatures are instantly targetable (unlike creatures you only "hear").

For dungeon-diving I would max search, disable device, open lock and spot.

[Darkcloud777]

This is the skill distribution on my trickster.


////appraise = escape artist

http://nwn2db.com/build/?240176

[Blackman D]

search is good for traps as pointed out, low spot/listen isnt really worth it since you are not gonna spot any mob in epic level that uses stealth and thats your intention - i cant think of any mob on the surface tho thats dangerous if you dont see it, as for the UD yea, drider scouts but most just dont even go to driders solo anyway (to grind at least) its usually a death wish to stay there too long

high UMD is only needed if you use scrolls a lot, it only takes about 13 for items

[sir_blacksoutalot]

My current Search skill is only at 13 points, and I seem to see traps just fine. Does a higher score help see higher-level traps? And perhaps reveal them sooner?

Thinking I might go 15ish into Search and pump Spot up to 25ish. All a matter of balance.

[Blackman D]

higher search will spot traps faster yes, but if you are crawling thru (slowed from active detection mode/stealth) then you can get by with 15-20 fine, tho some epic traps might pop up last minute

luckily tho trap triggers are random but not mobile, they will pop up in the same spots if they will pop up

[Stonebar]

Scrolls are DC 25+ the spell circle. UMD can mimic a feat like martial weapon proficiency if that's what you mean. (unless I'm missing something)

[Tsidkenu]

UMD cannot mimic weapon proficiencies. It can only mimic item restrictions such as class, alignment and race (DC 13), use of wands/rods (DC 10/13 respectively) and scroll use as posted above.

Scrolls have a minimum UMD amount to actually attempt to use them, although the DC for success is as posted above (25+ spell level). You never really need more than 30 UMD, taking into account CHA bonuses, because you can use a Greater Heroism scroll for the remaining +4 to use DC 34 level 9 spell scrolls at a whim.

As a minimum you want either 10 or 13 UMD after charisma/item modifiers to use wands etc.

[sir_blacksoutalot]

Thanks all, that helps a lot.

[Stonebar]

X number of ranks in the skill is needed, not a skill roll for non scroll items. Only scrolls roll a skill check vs. a DC.