The Balance of Power

[Akroma666]

Hey guys so rather than derail Steve's post: http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... 99#p659199
It was suggested I make my own thread as to why the evil population is lacking and why people don't play, are hesitant to play, or don't want to play evil.
How can we balance this? How can we fix this?
As of now, I was told.. And thus could be old data, that there are around 200 active players. Thus poll results in around 5% active evil plays..
Thoughts? Are my numbers way off?

[Lockonnow]

it is not we dont wish to play evil we dont wish to lose that is why

[Akroma666]

My person opinions: and this is not to call any DMs out, but i believe the lack of numbers, and the lack of DM support are a cycle. They just feed off each other and keep the numbers low.
My personal problem through experience is lack of event support for epic gear. I've seen epic gear given out to lots of goodies for DM events, multiple times in my 5 year play life. But it took me several months of lobbying for support just to get DM Theophanies to show support for me and my few companions for a sponsored event which resulted in an epic item (which to this day is still cursed with -15 will save).
My companions an I frankly got tired of waiting around killing epic mobs, diving through dungeons, and searching the same chests daily trying to get just a remote upgrade. I really liked kaaronds idea of epic merchants. At least that way people can buy epic gear and give gold a value. Here I am offering sometimes twice an items value in gold and as he stated, its not a direct trade so no one will do the trade.
A suggestion would be to get a dedicated % of DM staff to evil events on the surface, and an epic item vendor. I would suggest an item vendor being a DM, and you would need to rp or petition to get a specific in game item. Offer a gold price or get a quote to forge from the DM, and complete in game via a mini rp event specific to the player or small group of players. This gold price would be higher than normal like a normal vender, so the trade encouragement is still there.
Edit: a a DM fence with the ability to precure epic items would be amazing.

[Yhztro]

i am evil and like to play evil, but evil gods dont have the goodies of the good ones so since i am lawful evil orc and not a glutton for punishment i will stick with Mielikki as lawful good.
My opinion is that the lack of god balance and shops is what tips the favor towards playing good.

[Steve]

How can we balance this? How can we fix this?

Think of how to RP an Evil PC where it is not mostly oriented toward/about PC vs. PC—or worse, Player against Player—role-play. Consider a Character that is actively working within the Server Environment we have available (which means Sword Coast, NPCs, etc.).

There have to be more "neutral zones." There also have to be generated more "Social Zones," because Players do like campfire RP. And evil-minded PCs should not have to exclude themselves from this.

I keep going back to something written in another thread:

Subject: Looking over an edge

The -reason- Eldarian's death has fostered and facilitated SO MUCH RP and response, is because people care about his PC. He has aided PCs, assisted at every opportunity those who have asked for his help, and where he found an opportunity to help others. He's fought in IC wars and IC moral battles.. He's contributed MORE THAN HIS SHARE of RP, and -that- is why when something this drastic happens to his PC, people respond.

The above "caring" and "making opportunities" and battle "honors" should be possible for those of the evil-minded sort.

For example:

– Can a PC work to be honored by the High Captains of Roaringshore for exceptional piracy?
– Can a PC wrestle with his moral abnormalities yet maintain his dominance and strength of purpose so that others are lead by his/her example?
– Can a band of brigands rob and steal from a Baldarian caravan, and bring that booty back to the NPC Leader and receive rewards, titles, slaves, accolades within the evil power structure?
– Can a Zhent gain accolades and power without being a member of the Zhentarim Player Guild? Conversely, are there any consistent, active Evil NPC factions that Players can RP within, in the similar vein that we RP "within" the Laws of Baldur's Gate and the whims of the Four Dukes?

There are aspects missing for well-rounded Evil PC RP that CAN be given/supported through Player-only initiatives, but not all.

If it is a perceived "lack of DM attention," then probably more suggestions and less demands of the Team, is the way to go. But also make sure you have a Plan that is possible without DM support first, and work towards making it easier for DMs to "step in" with NPC support that does not directly/indirectly effect goodly PCs RP. That is key to understand.

[Zeland]

I agree with Akroma, it is very frustrating to get the attention of a dm for a personal or small group event. I find it repetitive to grind for loot in the same locations hoping to get an epic item, exspecially for us who have jobs, school, and a family to attend too. I'm not saying make epic items easy to come by, but make more opportunities to get them. For exsample if their was a vendor who sold epic items, make it so you have to do a quest before you can purchase an epic. I like Akromas idea of a dm vendor who could regulate the amount of epics given out so that one rich PC couldn't just buy any epic they wanted, but over a period of time could acquire them through rp and questing. Over the 3 years I have played this game I have only found 2 epic items... and I feel a major reason for that is because I have chosen to play evil characters, the lack of events and dm support for evil aligned PCs is sad. Giving evil pcs more events would also help with good aligned pcs to give more of a challenge. Another issue is the lack of specific epic items, for exsample their is only 2 epic versions of a bastard sword that I know of, that gives NO variety for specific builds but that is for another topic.

[Rhifox]

The following is just my opinion. I might be wrong, but it's how I feel of things having been on both sides of the problem. (I play a good-favoring neutral character on BG, but my main on my last server was a member of the Church of Bane). I've not been on BG terribly long, as well, so my understanding of the history of the server and how this issue has been affecting it over the long term is unfortunately limited.


The problem that I see is too often good and evil on RP servers becomes 'good versus evil'. Evil (and often good, too) is played more as an opposition element than anything else. Direct conflict between players is always a recipe for drama. Now, conflict is very important for RP and storytelling, the most crucial component, even. But there's a difference between conflict and outright hostility. When the playerbase is actively looking for ways to win and to crush opposing players, it makes things less about the story and more about the competition.

What I think is needed? More legitimacy for evil factions. I've always found Thayan Enclaves one of the better forms of evil in FR RP communities because they are not required to be strictly acting in opposition to the heroes. They have economic and territorial ties with good factions that gives common ground despite differences in morals. A Thayan character is able to function alongside and in the same party as good characters, and often have similar goals and ambitions. There's little incentive for them to cause outright conflict, because that threatens existing benefits. Thayans can go anywhere and do more or less anything, while adding an interesting component to interactions by having a different culture and mindset from the typical hero. They're the Token Evil Teammate.

I personally feel that baddies need to gain (longterm/permanent) authority over a legitimate city and its surrounding environs. Not something that is exclusionary, antagonistic, or hidden to good factions, where its existence only promotes outright war, but rather a place that has strong ties with all groups, has excellent shops and other unique attractions that encourage non-evil people to visit, and even has various good-aligned organizations and churches within its own borders (forcing goodies to do as evil often has--RP in an area where they are the outcast and must act with restraint and tact to avoid facing local justice). Something that faces the same threats as the rest of the region, regardless or whatever differences of morality they might have with other areas. Now, this is something that does require a lot of DM care for the baddies, more than they get right now. It also requires evil AND GOOD players that want to play nice and not just cause strife everywhere.


Pitting players in direct, open war with each other is almost always a recipe for disaster. Evil, by virtue of being the less populated group by default, will also typically be the loser of such conflicts. This only encourages drama. The player community should, for the most part, be one unified whole facing the threats of the outside, where interactions are flavored by good and evil viewpoints, not destroyed by them. PvP should, IMO, be something very rare, not the default interaction between good and evil PCs.

[mrm3ntalist]

Is this about epic items or evil population?

[Akroma666]

Is this about epic items or evil population?

Looks like a bit of both. I think they are tied together.. Along with events.

[mrm3ntalist]

Is this about epic items or evil population?

Looks like a bit of both. I think they are tied together.. Along with events.

You mean that evil characters dont get epic gear? I think ( from personal experience ) that it cannot be more false.

There is an issue with epic gear availability, but that is a global issue. Not good or evil and mixing these two seperate issues together wont solve anything.

There was/is an intention from QC to implement epic shops but put together the ammount of work it needs to create epic shops (Items/Lore/Theme), the time to balance the items, the time to coordinate with the dms and devs, then only hear negative comments because players dont get an item they have in their mind, personally i believe it puts people off from bothering with it.

As far as the problems you mention about evil characters, I would be very interested to hear the views from other long time players of evil characters. To me it feels like it is the same about good or evil characters. They both think the others have it easier.

I would ask you to make a good character and see how many more events you are going to get or how many more epic items but i dont want to waste your time. The answer is that you will get the same.

[Flasmix]

Isn't Roaring Shore kind of an evil city?

[Kanada]

How can you say they will get the same? I have been on bg for a long time and see Good aligned groups get way me events. It's not even close.

[Akroma666]

I would ask you to make a good character and see how many more events you are going to get or how many more epic items but i dont want to waste your time. The answer is that you will get the same.

Fenrir is good aligned healer of illmater. I can log in the same time as a DM and get an event almost every time. I cannot say the same for any of my evil toons in the slightest. Other than maybe a their who will get the law to step in.

[NegInfinity]

Hey guys so rather than derail Steve's post: http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... 99#p659199
It was suggested I make my own thread as to why the evil population is lacking and why people don't play, are hesitant to play, or don't want to play evil.
How can we balance this? How can we fix this?
As of now, I was told.. And thus could be old data, that there are around 200 active players. Thus poll results in around 5% active evil plays..

There's nothing to fix. And nothing to balance.

Thoughts? Are my numbers way off?

Your numbers are completely meaningless.

Poll does not provide you with reliable data, you'd need to check alignments for in-game characters, instead of asking on forums. A lot of players do not visit forums and do not vote on polls.

A year or two ago evil folks could really use some more areas where they could do stuff like raising undead, right now those become available.

----

If someone is "hesitant to play evil", frankly it is not my job to fix their misconceptions/beliefs. I never played even one good aligned char here.

[mrm3ntalist]

How can you say they will get the same? I have been on bg for a long time and see Good aligned groups get way me events. It's not even close.

You mean events designed for good only characters? Which events are those?

All open events i seen are open to evil characters. I have seen Sharan/Cult of the dragon/Zhent/assassins/etc characters join those events.

If you talk about guild specific events, this happens for every guild. No guild will have weekly events if that is what you are hoping for.