Lawful Evil Helmite priest?

[Maximvs]

I'm reading up some lore. Helm is a guardian deity, he's Lawful Neutral. He allows Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil clerics. Yet, he's said to like children. He's said to protect and guard from evil and bla bla.

Can anyone give me an example of a Lawful Evil cleric of Helm that doesn't contradict anything in the lore book? Who he she is, what lead him to be a helmite priest, what he did to be evil, what's his view on "guarding", and what it is he could be guarding , for example?

[PiaMango]

A lawful evil helmite would be totalitarian, where it becomes oppressive. Think over controlling. Maybe he thinks people are weak and requires overprotection/strict laws to regulate them? I think there are a few other ways you could go about it.

[Asmodea]

Another example is a guardian of something or someone evil. A sworn protector of an Evil Lord. Or a a guardian of a coven of necromancers. Remember Helm is the patron of all who watch. All who protect. Protecting things can be just as evil as it can good.

[Maximvs]

A control maniac isn't necessarily evil.

Yes, I understand the concept of guarding something, even if it's evil. But the lore book doesn't give a single example of that. The long description pretty much depict Helm as one of those lawful neutral, but with good tendencies as they say.

Edit : oh ok, I think I get it. Maybe he does guard something evil, but let's say a child tries to enter a forgotten place, and it's his duty to guard it against any intrusion. He kills the kid and drops to evil. That way, a helmite priest could be evil yet still guard something evil from the rest of Faerun.

[The Whistler]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ghtTemplar

[Tsidkenu]

The town bristles with an eerie quiet as your company makes its initial entrance through the gates of the wooden palisade. The gate guard looks upon you anxiously, almost betraying the fact that there is far more to this town than meets the eye.

"For the glory of Helm!" he remarks loudly, thumping his palm across the symbol of an open hand inset with a single, open eye, the sigil of the Watcher which rests prominently upon the blue and white tabard which covers his well-worn maille.

As you cast your attention upon the road which stretches up beyond the gatehouse, you finally get a better look at what you could only perceive marginally from without. The houses on both sides are all made of log wood, robust and homely yet somehow deficient. Eyes poke through slatted window frames at your company until your unwanted attention falls upon them, at which sign they retreat back into their gloomy interiors. A larger building sits on the left hand side with a prominent stone chimney at the rear. Given the metallic din emanating from it, you can only suppose it to be the town's smithy. Opposite is a two story log building with smaller, but more numerous stone chimneys. A large sign hanging from the roof facing the main gate makes it inescapable to recognise. The Copper Duckling. There will be occasion for you to partake of its revelry later, but time is of the essence now.

The road winds slightly to the right and heads noticeably uphill towards the centre of town. There, resting in its most prominent position, is what you have all come here to seek. The Temple of Helm takes pride of place in Moretonbrook, just as they do in many of the other districts in the region. With a nod to the rest of your company, you begin your steady march towards it.

The air is still as the dew of the spring morning melts into the grass and rows of happy tulips that grow in militarised beds, rank and file, to the left and right of the arching wooden doors of the temple. Your gauntleted hand stretched forth to lay hold of the dusky, black iron ring of a door handle, worn smooth on its lower half by decades of use. With a twist to the right emerges a click from inside and the heavy, iron-shod door creaks open upon its soot-black hinges.

Rays of light beam through the tall, arched windows on the left and right as your company enter the nave. A kneeling statue sat at the base of every pillar in the main aisle, kneeling attentively with a sword in their hand, bladetip resting silently against the cold stone floor. A solitary figure knelt likewise before the altar, gleaming fullplate glinting with every speck of light cast upon it, the decoratively embossed iron polished as brightly as shining silver. His right hand lays upon his breast as he remains motionless in quiet meditation.

"Prelate Georgio van der Huys!" your voice booms through the temple's agonising quiet. Flecksof dust float through the gleam, almost as though your voice alone gave them cause to rise in protest of their tranquility. The kneeling figure slowly rose and turned. Two dusky brown orbs greeted your own, accompanied with a deceptively meek smile.

"Welcome, brothers," the figure replied, the voice coarse and deep. The air was tense as he held both of his palms outwards in peaceful welcome.

"By order of Prelate Wallessen of the House of the Guardian in Nashkel you are to..." you started, but the stern voice of the other quickly retorted, much as you expected he would.

"Brothers! Think carefully now, before you act. Look at the manner of the town I have established here, how peaceful, how orderly! Why, one would think that I had almost done something amiss by organising it so. Is it truly a crime against the Guardian to rule with justice, temperance and charity towards my fellow man?" The silence was only broken by the dim clink of rivet-shod boots upon the stone floor, the gentle metallic rustle of maille and the weathered creak of leather as your troops tightened their grips upon their spears.

"You are to surrender without resistance in order to face trial for the murder of Prelate Armaugh," you finally managed to finish. A steely eyed glance at your company revealed their relative unease with the way things were proceeding.

"If Armaugh were a capable commander then perhaps he would not have fallen in battle with the orcs now, would he?" came the smooth and diplomatic rebuttal.

"Enough! Your lies will be tried and heard by the High Priest on behalf of the Watcher!" you snarled back. "Men, take him in!"

The heavy clank of forged iron fetters echoed through the nave as your company of Helmite soliders marched forward to claim your quarry. Prelate van der Huys stood at ease, legs about a foot apart, hands clasped behind his back as his steely gaze pended upon the inevitable. Then his face lit up in an elegant, malicious smirk as the doors to the temple slammed shut behind you. Your company wheeled their attentions about, momentarily distracted by this new happenstance. That palpable feeling of dread rose upon from your stomach to your throat as you realised your mistake.

"Seize him!" you bellowed frantically, reaching for your sword and beginning to charge.

"So be it, brothers," he quipped coldly, taking his hands out from behind his back and, with the palms extending outward towards the pillars of the temple and the kneeling statues which sat at their bases, entirely surrounding your company, and began to chant a prayer to the Watcher. The trap was set, laid and executed perfectly.

"Sentinels, awaken! Protect your master, and this town!"

[Rhifox]

Being evil means you're ruthless and don't care about hurting others in the pursuit of your task. It does not mean you have to be evil in everything you do. A Lawful Evil Helmite (or a Lawful Evil ANYONE) doesn't have to dislike children. They can even love them. And not want to hurt them. They could even feel guilt if they did (though if they're more lawful than evil, then they would still hurt a child if it were their orders, just feel bad about it. If more evil than lawful, then they might turn against their sworn charge and take out their anger on them in order to protect the child). Of course, that's if children are a particular soft spot for them. They don't have to be. Just because Helm favors children doesn't mean all of his worshipers have to. And being evil doesn't mean you feel a need to kill all the children and kick all the puppies.

A Lawful Evil Helmite, as said in a previous post, is a totalitarian. A fascist. They'll typically protect a very narrow focus, and be enforcers of unequal groups and class structures. They'll be inclined to be ruthless in their pursuit of security, using torture in interrogations or setting fire to whole cities or groups of innocent people who are deemed a threat to their charge. Helm is the god of protection and protectors. He is worshiped by anyone who protects others, regardless of their alignment. A Lawful Evil Helmite guard protects an evil overlord or uneven society. A Lawful Evil Helmite ruler or priest enforces a society in which there is an extreme level of surveillance and oppression in the name of security, and troublemakers are dealt with harshly.

Think Thayan Knights. They're evil, sworn defenders of a mostly evil organization. Thayan Knights are inclined to venerate Helm, because they're still protectors. And Helm would still respect them for carrying out their duty faithfully and loyally, even if he doesn't necessarily agree with the methods they use or the organization they serve.

Edit : oh ok, I think I get it. Maybe he does guard something evil, but let's say a child tries to enter a forgotten place, and it's his duty to guard it against any intrusion. He kills the kid and drops to evil. That way, a helmite priest could be evil yet still guard something evil from the rest of Faerun.

This is actually the reason Helm was viewed very poorly after the Time of Troubles. In the pursuit of guarding the divine realms, he struck down Mystra. Because it was his duty, and he would see his charge fulfilled.

Now, that didn't make him evil, because he was ultimately just doing his duty. If you are sworn to defend something and goodly people try to force themselves past you, killing them is not an evil act. What defines an evil helmite is that they are inclined to use extreme measures of protecting their charges, feel no guilt for committing evil deeds in the pursuit of their duty, and believe in uneven societies that hurt and oppress everyone that is not part of the naturally superior upper class/race/overlord/whatever.

[Maximvs]

Nice rp post by the way.

"If you are sworn to defend something and goodly people try to force themselves past you, killing them is not an evil act."

That's debatable. I agree with most of what you say. One quote however...

"Think Thayan Knights. They're evil, sworn defenders of a mostly evil organization. Thayan Knights are inclined to venerate Helm, because they're still protectors."

From what I read, I have no trouble picturing a few Helmites here and there taking on a guardian status for an evil person. However, I swear the divine book only speaks of Helmites defending the realm from evil. Can anyone point at me just one example of a church of helm ( rather than individuals ) that's operating in an evil town and defending the rule of it's evil leaders?

[Rhifox]

From what I read, I have no trouble picturing a few Helmites here and there taking on a guardian status for an evil person. However, I swear the divine book only speaks of Helmites defending the realm from evil. Can anyone point at me just one example of a church of helm ( rather than individuals ) that's operating in an evil town and defending the rule of it's evil leaders?

There is a Church to Helm in Thay. He is the patron of the majority of Thay's soldiers.

Helm, He of the Unsleeping Eyes, God of Guardians, Lesser God, LN, Nirvana
Symbol: An open, staring eye, often painted on a metal gauntlet.

Helm is the patron of many of the soldiers of Thay and of the Inner Seas lands in general. His worship is not supported by the hierarchy, but it is tolerated in mercenaries.

Bezantur is the home of the main temple to Helm, but there are temples in all the main cities and shrines in every garrison and tax station. The highest level cleric is the Grand Master of the Order of Helm, a 9th level cleric who operates out of the Citadel.

And Thayan fighters are characterized as being very honorable and resolute in their protection of the Red Wizards, which is something Helm would respect.

Perhaps stung by the lack of admiration of the Thayan society, [Thayan] warriors nevertheless have adopted their own code of honor. They have vowed to defend the wizards of Thay--—which is indeed the task they most often find themselves assigned—--and they have sworn to protect Thay'’s borders and its rulers. Once a Thayan warrior gives his word of honor, he will die to keep it.

There was also the Companions of the One True Vision and their invasion of Maztica, which is described in Faiths and Avatars as having been 'unflinching and often brutal' and greatly soured the reputation of Helm in the nation and at large.

Of course it should be noted that of the actual clergy, Helm's priests are mostly LG, LN, and N (Ref: Faiths and Avatars) . An LE priest, though possible, is indeed something that's rather rare. The sort of people who become tyrants and oppressors in the name of security, as detailed above, are probably more likely to switch their worship to Bane rather than continuing to act as priests of Helm.

[Maximvs]

Hm. Interesting. Alright, that answers my question. Thanks.

[NegInfinity]

I'm reading up some lore. Helm is a guardian deity, he's Lawful Neutral. He allows Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil clerics. Yet, he's said to like children. He's said to protect and guard from evil and bla bla.

Can anyone give me an example of a Lawful Evil cleric of Helm that doesn't contradict anything in the lore book? Who he she is, what lead him to be a helmite priest, what he did to be evil, what's his view on "guarding", and what it is he could be guarding , for example?

In general: Stick to the letter of the law, and show no compassion to anyone who does not fall into your code/code.

"He also serves who stands and waits and watches carefully"..
"Careful planning always defeats rushed actions in the end"..

They must protect the weak, the unpopular, the injured, and the young and not sacrifice them for others. They must anticipate attacks and he ready, know their foes, and care carefully for their weapons so that their weapons" can perform their duties properly when called upon...
"Never betray your trust"

For example, lawful evil guardian could ruthlessly murder every strong foe he/she encounters. Once the foe is dead, he could take foe's children into his care even if they do not want that. Lawful Evil character could also do good deeds if forced, but do them grudgingly.

Basically, in extreme it could be total obedience to the code, but absolutely no compassion/mercy to anyone outside of it.

"If you are sworn to defend something and goodly people try to force themselves past you, killing them is not an evil act."

Who said you will have to kill them? You could poison or maim them, which would make them fall into "weak" category, then put them under your "protection" for the rest of their life, never letting them leave. Which would be evil.
You can also slay anything that is not immediate threat, but could become one. That can also eb evil.

[PiaMango]

Upon this I believe an Evil Helmite would be more inclined to preemptive attacks at possible threats. IE collapsing an Orcish tribe forming within a nearby woods though they are keeping to themselves and have presented no direct threat to civilization around it.

A lack of remorse and compassion is certainly how I would view it.

[The Last Question]

A LE priest of Helm, in my opinion, would resemble a lot like Darth Vader in terms of general attitude. Right into that intersection between ruthless and pragmatic.

[Master_Sarevok]

Sounds like an LE Helmite would be the perfect friend to a Banite.