Stealing Guild Halls From Guilds.

[AlexBnt]

Sounds like some players need to drink some stoneskin potions.

[TheLier]

But even with NPCs/guards that are there, who's to say (DMs obviously) the group of players doing whatever couldn't kill them all? Obviously DMs would be needed for any sort of guild hall takeover but if there is a good IC reason for the players to be doing it then why wouldn't this sort of thing be allowed?

Because of modern rights attributed to player stuff. Removing stuff from players often leads to drama and leaving the server.

And at the same time they complain about no real conseuqences of their actions?

[Steve]

C'mon guys...you need to look at it both ways.

If we take the current population of the Server, there are, by far, way more active good-aligned Guilds, and they are almost all in league (or, at the whiff of a kobold's fart, they'll a Line of National Emergency and enact Holy Kobold Death upon anything that is gray-green...and farts).

The evil aligned Guilds can't even share a toilet, without someone claiming to be the most powerful shitter in the galaxy, and...what do you have to offer them in order to use 1 piece of TP!!

So, you can imagine, that if Guild Halls were stealable, or, that one could easily steal the fine china from a Guild hall if you have 99 H/MS—cause who doesn't—Darkhold would have already been burned and it's bricks made into paving stones for the Tradeway, the Sharran guild have 24/7 Light spell permanently case therin for all Eternity, Roaringshore made into the First Port of Baldaran Navy, and the Temple of Auril turned into Ice Disney Land.

I don't like it myself, and I think that a Guild and a Guild Hall should only remain "in private control" as long as ACTUAL GUILD PCs are actually active. If the Guild dies cause the Guild Leader who paid to have hte Guild and maybe even Devved it themselves has left the Server, or just whatever, then some option for reuse by Others should be possible.

But here is something else: yes, DMs could support an RP-initiated theft or Guild Hall Takeover 1352 Smackdown, but it isn't in their interest to do so, either on this or that side of the Veil. It is too personal.

[TheLier]

I really don't want to get into a long debate about this but IMO people should decide what they want:

- Realism, so things cand and -will- go very wrong, great personal losses for toons etc. Thing will be "unfair" sometimes becuse that is how things are. The PCs, even max level epic toons are just very good mages/fighters/rangers/paladins/half-dragon far realm pacted warlock/FS, but never "truly great".
Or
- Heroism, where the heroes, be good or evil, will never be in "unwinable" situation, and will be the main actors of the plot, control cities.

Becuse both can be fun, but if we switch between styles too often, that could be rather dull. Of course, it is not about extremes, but at some point we have to decide:

We want "gritty" realism, or a more "fair" setting for all sides?

[Steve]

People aren't here to "lose," TL. On the other hand, "being here" isn't about Winning, either.

Grittier sounds great on digital paper, and Fair is relative to dogma or authoritative say, so could anyone ever be truly satisfied with how the Sandbox is constructed?

I think it is pretty simple: define what is fun for you as a Player, and set your RP to enact/build/challenge that individual fun. Maybe you find others that agree with it, and you move on from there. If you find others that don't agree...then you might just have to move on, and away.

While I wish BGTSCC was more gritty and a High RP Server, my years of experience on BGTSCC have shown me that grit and High is often translated into "more second life" RP, than a Win/Lose game. It takes so much god damn work to achieve anything lasting on BGTSCC, that it makes sense few if any are truly willing to risk, in order to lose, because really, there are no equal gains to achieve if you DO win.

[Moltrazahn]

...But here is something else: yes, DMs could support an RP-initiated theft or Guild Hall Takeover 1352 Smackdown, but it isn't in their interest to do so, either on this or that side of the Veil. It is too personal.

... I want to see Radiant Heart steal Darkhold while Zhentarim steals the Radiant heart HQ. Darklord Arkaine vs. Grandmaster Selengil.

Darklord Arkaine (from atop his obsidian throne): "Bring juistice to this land, so that the evil dooers may be undone in their wicket ways! Let these chill tops of tyranni be libirated and may we finally bring an end to this unjuistice that is the Black hand!"

Grandmaster Selengil (from... a nicely furnished chair?): "... Quick! Lock the doors! bloody hell why did I think this was a good idea?! This is rubble! And right at the gate too! was I drunk? I must have been drunk... "

"All of the above is saterical and does in no way shape or form reflect the characters whom are mention within this statement. Any lawsuits or complaints may be filed at ol' dodger in the fields of Eastern Farmlands"

[Steve]

... I want to see ...

You mean, something like this:



It's a tad diffies to tell which is which...but the resemblance is meta-there!

[TheLier]

People aren't here to "lose," TL. On the other hand, "being here" isn't about Winning, either.

Grittier sounds great on digital paper, and Fair is relative to dogma or authoritative say, so could anyone ever be truly satisfied with how the Sandbox is constructed?

I think it is pretty simple: define what is fun for you as a Player, and set your RP to enact/build/challenge that individual fun. Maybe you find others that agree with it, and you move on from there. If you find others that don't agree...then you might just have to move on, and away.

While I wish BGTSCC was more gritty and a High RP Server, my years of experience on BGTSCC have shown me that grit and High is often translated into "more second life" RP, than a Win/Lose game. It takes so much god damn work to achieve anything lasting on BGTSCC, that it makes sense few if any are truly willing to risk, in order to lose, because really, there are no equal gains to achieve if you DO win.

Oh I do not want anything to force on anyone. It just annoys me, when the general "theme" suddenly changes from one to the other, becuse my fun is largely effected by how much I can immerse.

I'm not keen on of those type, I just want it to be consistent.

Maybe my "IC is I act like my toon, OOC I act like myself, nothing is personal what happens IC", stance is radical, or I'm a "hardcore" and "elitist" RP-er, but that is how I work. I'm here for RP.

[thids]

Darkhold would have already been burned and it's bricks made into paving stones for the Tradeway

No, it really, really wouldn't. Stop trying to present your wet dreams as facts.

[Steve]

Darkhold would have already been burned and it's bricks made into paving stones for the Tradeway

No, it really, really wouldn't. Stop trying to present your wet dreams as facts.

Okay, I'll take the bait: you really think my goal has always been to see Darkhold destroyed? Haha, really?

The point I was trying to make—and you're invited to look over the sarcasm—is that Guilds exist as nearly impenetrable areas, whether or not they are canon lore. Just as it could be totally possible to assassinate a Duke, so should it be possible to cause a ruckus up in Big Daddy Bane's house.

My "wet dreams as facts...," lol, thids...nice one!

[Young Werther]

Honestly what I think would happen is you'd get a horde of PvPers that would go around taking guild halls on flimsy RP excuses. The lulz would be had.

[Moltrazahn]

Darkhold would have already been burned and it's bricks made into paving stones for the Tradeway

No, it really, really wouldn't. Stop trying to present your wet dreams as facts.

For some reason I would not dare imagine what Steves wet dreams might be like.

My "wet dreams as facts...," lol, thids...nice one!

"Follow the Darkhold brick road"


Either way... As was mentioned ealier in the thread, I think that if guild leaders can figure it out internally, no biggies. It would actually be fun if guilds cooperated ooc'ly like that, even when they have Ic conflicts. Example: "What if we attack your guild hall, and you guys defend. All out with the PC-forces we have. Winner gets to occupy for a few days, maybe draw mustages on a few paintings etc". If there was that kind of initiative, id take my hat off to those people and let my coam-over blow in salute for such outstanding attitudes.

If there is talk about some of the old long-abandoned guild halls... Well, I suppose there should be an option to resettle within sucha location... least it gets scrapped to salvage some memory to the server. But I think the staff tries to rescyle such places now and then.

[thids]

Okay, I'll take the bait: you really think my goal has always been to see Darkhold destroyed? Haha, really?

I do not really care what your goal has been, or is. I have been watching you take "subtle" (though not really, since you are actually stumbling around like a clumsy oaf to anyone who knows what to look for) jabs at both individual players and groups of players on these forums since you have been removed from the DM team. I have seen people permanently banned for way less than that, how you are still allowed to spew your garbage is beyond me. How many posts did you have deleted in the last 2 years? I have seen at least several over the last few months, more in the past.

The point I was trying to make—and you're invited to look over the sarcasm—is that Guilds exist as nearly impenetrable areas, whether or not they are canon lore. Just as it could be totally possible to assassinate a Duke, so should it be possible to cause a ruckus up in Big Daddy Bane's house.

Oh yes, "seamlessly" transitioning from stealing china to burning down one of the most secure and most garrisoned guild halls on the server indeed, let's call it "sarcasm". Ah, the art of backtracking, I would have thought you to be a master at it by now.

[DM Golem]

The thread is descending into personal attacks. Please desist, or the thread will be locked.

PMs sent to the relevant parties

Golem

[AlexBnt]

Guilds exist as nearly impenetrable areas, whether or not they are canon lore. Just as it could be totally possible to assassinate a Duke, so should it be possible to cause a ruckus up in Big Daddy Bane's house.

Obviously there are certain guilds that would be more likely or less likely for this to happen to. Darkhold, The Thayan Enclave, Doron Amar. Those are all places that have many guards and defences that a small typical adventuring group or a rival guild would find nearly impossible to do any sort of takeover to.

Other guilds such as Phoenix Company, or the different ships, are another story. If a pirate ship attacked the Wanderess or the Twilight Rose there (should be) a chance that they are successful in taking over that ship. I wouldn't call for that to be a common occurrence as both of those crews would be highly skilled but the fact is it could happen. It would be a cool event/storyline of that crew then having to go and take their ship back from whatever other group it was that stole it from them in the first place.