Bad ruling, needs amendment - scrying example.

[Tantive]

PnP/Lore spells
Between players: Spells that do not exist in the game do not exist. Cantrips that do not affect another player are fine, but all other spells do not exist. (this is part of play what is on your sheet)


Stiffles roleplay, it needs amendment taking for example Scrying(which the implementation gamewise is odd compared to pnp). Before the spell was even put into the game, scrying would not even have been possible to do even ingamewise. And even if the two player parties consent to the scry which would enhance a roleplay encounter, this would be grounds for suspension if they went through with it because 'rules'.

It is in need of changing, or you will require DM supervision for every single interaction in that matter. Unless they will hard handidly say, play your sheet taking creativity away.

Rewording, allowing for consensual ..or even going to list every single spell in the game with a ruling to it seperately. But in my opinion, this ruling is stiffling and not beneficial in it's current wording.

[ctothep]

Well the spells do exist now, yes? There is scrying, greater scrying, non detection and so on.

Ive been doing scrying recently via forum RP with another player. Basically my character tried to scry her and we went through with all of the rolls. I dont know if DMs read guild forums but if they do i didnt hear anything from them that what we did was against the rules or anything.

Anyway, if the rules is that spells that are not ingame cannot be used player to player then you can use them now, no?

[Dreme]

The issue I see with this is that a lot of people will just substitute any spell they want for RP reasons without having to actually learn or memorize the spell.. I have the PHB1, PHB2, Complete Adventurer, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Magic of Faerun, Player's Guide to Faerun and so on.. All have new spells that I could just pop out at any time without needing to prepare the spell or learn the spell or anything.. A spell for any occasion.. ANyway.. This rule being in place may seem limiting but the list of spells in D&D and in FR is so extensive, the other option is complete chaos.

[DM Galatea]

OPINION FOLLOWS

Keeping Scry under DM control is done for the same reason as keeping Detect Good and Detect Evil under DM control. It tends to cause more problems than it solves. It generates the following issues:

• It is a combat action. To quote: "The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save."
  
  This is a decision which can only be made by a DM. As DCs are only determinable by the DM in a given situation where consequences occur, this is a valid ruling. Further. The rulings for scrying involve a typical, unnormalised environment where level 30 is not, for example, considered lower level as it is here.
• Metagaming information. Scrying is a powerful spell. It is rare that a DM allows one to fail in my experience.
• OOC issues. Perhaps your characters scrying is entirely above board. Yet scryed information has a habit of getting out into the open. At which point grudges tend to get hold of it and before you know it, drama bomb #57 has ignited.

Its simply not worth the time and effort to put a complicated system of enforcement into place. DMs are common enough and a scry is a fairly simple request to oversee. If you desperately need to scry someone or something, a DM can oversee it and ensure it is done properly.