UD expansion?

[tfunke]

Having the two world's areas be interconnected would be far more interesting, than its current segregation. Open up the surface to the drow from level 5 onwards, open up the underdark to the surface from level 10 onwards. Have zones that the surfacers can't go beyond (close to Sshamath -probably the drows level 1-7 zones.) Let the drows roam free on the surface (if they can).

There will always be more surfacers playing because simply put, that's where most of the interaction happens. The Underdark just needs interaction. Why the "evil" drow get excluded from the surface doesn't make sense to me, especially when "evil" surface characters survive on the surface just fine.

[Nyeleni]

There is just too many stuff working against the UD to make it work.

13 years old server when the UD is supposed to be evil.
No slavery when the UD is supposed to be half of it.
All DM events ends up with good guys winning, so the UD will always lose.
Only lvl 30 toons can cross the very difficult zone between surface and UD.
Countless server rules preventing anything but quick pvp between UD and surface.
The player base mostly plays good.
Etc.

This server is like 100 times more enjoyable on the surface.

Don't know what 13 years has to do with UD being evil.
There is slavery in the UD.
All DM events do NOT end with the good guys winning. You might be thinking about some childish books and movies.
As it should be. The netherese maze is even for lvl 30 a big challenge.
Hm, again, not true.
That is the surface.

You are so biased for having only played on the surface, I assume. But still better guesses than yours.

SNIP Why the "evil" drow get excluded from the surface doesn't make sense to me, especially when "evil" surface characters survive on the surface just fine.

The "evil" drow abused being able to wander freely on the surface. Causing much mayhem and chaos.

[Maximvs]

Jeez. You must be purposefully missing my points.

1- 13 year old evil is "disney" evil. You cannot emote anything truly evil. Only an 18 year old server can fully explore what evil really is.
2- Slavery between players is prohibited. Players are what animates the server the most. NPC slaves is nothing compared to that.
3- Well, perhaps my sentence was wrong, how it was worded. Perhaps we should instead slap a percentage of good vs evil wins in DM events and see that it clearly isn't 50 - 50.
4- No, this isn't "how it should be". Going from the UD to the surface is indeed more of a challenge, but not necessary. A portal could exist to get people up and down, and so can a simple, vertical shaft after an earthquake or something. Simple examples. I dont know if you realize what a lvl 30 character is, but they're in the Elminster-Manshoon-Simbul-Gromph bracket now, and many heroes with way less level went in the underdark and came out alive. Even Drizzt is lvl 16 - 21 . A party of lvl 10 could go in the UD for a quest and succeed, depending on what happens.
5- Not true because of the word "countless" ? lol. There are more rules regarding UD - Surface encounters than there are with Surface - Surface or UD - UD encounters though. That is true.
6- Ok we can agree on that at least.

Read between the lines brah.

[Nyeleni]

Look first I don't have to read between the lines. Language is precise enough to say what you mean.

Second (and so on) a 13 years old server is a server with 13 years under it's belt. PG-13 would have helped.

Again our lvl 30 aren't really lvl 30 they are more lvl 15.

There have been DM-led raids of drow on the surface where the pvp wasn't just quick - the last one not even that long ago. And I don't even see those rules where UD-surface is more explicit than surface-UD. There is no distinction.

And even if slaves between players isn't allowed. Serfdom is allowed and it is practically slavery.



EDIT: And I'm only especially hard on you because of your first post in this thread.

[The Whistler]

BGTSCC UD is a flawed concept to begin with, it is an oxymoron. The PG 13 is a huge factor in this; it really stymies the setting's true potential. People pretending like it's a non-issue have either never tried their hand at portraying an authentic drow character, or really need to get their heads out of the sand.

Then it's all the rules concerning UD-Surface interaction. It's mind-boggling, really. The UD feels like a containment zone for the mentally handicapped, the PvP mongers, the ERPers and those who actually enjoy conflict (this group probably clashes too much with the social, happy-go-lucky mentality a lot of players have on the surface).

Lastly, you have the dearth of DMs which in my opinion is not an issue but discourages quite a few people from playing down there. I don't think the calustrophobic area building argument has actually any merit as that is personal opinion. I actually love the dark ambience a lot of the UD areas give off.

I've been a semi-regular UD player since early 2014 and getting anything done down there is an uphill battle. A lot of times people will piggyback on someone else's RP and some ephemeral traffic will occur. But the RP is rarely self-sustaining because there is no conflict backing it up. Players will gravitate towards the up and coming faction and down there, people are all too happy to solve their problems with PvP. This effect quickly snuffs out any opposition and the 'winner' faction is left with nothing to do, causing players to drift back to their surface toons.

Either help the UD, or kill it already. As it stands, it really is just dying a slow death.

[ctothep]

BGTSCC UD is a flawed concept to begin with, it is an oxymoron. The PG 13 is a huge factor in this; it really stymies the setting's true potential. People pretending like it's a non-issue have either never tried their hand at portraying an authentic drow character, or really need to get their heads out of the sand.

I have tortured, been tortured and killed other PCs in very brutal ways. I've had a slave char and i know there are other slave PCs around. I had a DM sell an orc char of mine to a Drow PC on the bazaar of S'shamath for a price that is not even worth mentioning. I've been part of PC sacrifices to Lolth.

Is all of that not allowed on a PG-13 server? Maybe, i dont even know nor do i care. As long as both parties consent and theres no drama why would the staff care much to begin with? I think it was Maecius that made a post a while ago that there has never been a single punishment in regards to the PG-13 rule on the server. Hell you can probably RP sex between two PCs for hours on end as long as you dont do it on the streets of S'shamath rubbing it into everyones face.

What exactly is it that makes the PG-13 such a huge problem?

With everything else you said i completely agree though.

[Maximvs]

Again our lvl 30 aren't really lvl 30 they are more lvl 15.

I don't see that in the DM ruling section. Did you take that from another server, maybe?

[TheLier]

Again our lvl 30 aren't really lvl 30 they are more lvl 15.

I don't see that in the DM ruling section. Did you take that from another server, maybe?

That is more like a general agreement, then a ruling.

Why?

Becuse otherwise the setting would fall apart. "Real" level 30 PCs are the most powerful mortals who ever existed.

[Steve]

Whatever happened to the Areas built for Middledark?

Also: BGTSCC is Teen rated.

[Maximvs]

That is more like a general agreement, then a ruling.

I don't think that's true, considering how fleshed out this server's rules are. Either a DM backs up your statement or it's not true.

[TheLier]

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26028

Here you go, this is what everyone uses in general, as far as I know.

"I came up as a DnD'er at a time when a lvl 8-12 character was considered a powerful hero who had committed great deeds at least locally if not within their nation or country. A lvl 16-20 character is an epic hero of legend likely famous throughout the lands with bards singing tales of deeds of nearly demigod status. Examples in lore of a lvl 20 character would be along the lines of Achilles, Merlin, Beowolf, Lu Bu, Musashi, and the like. Elminster, if I recall, is lvl 26 or 27.

That said, I do understand that this server - for practical purposes - includes characters up to lvl 30. I also do not want to rob characters of their epicness. Therefore, with respect to disposition towards your character in my events, I will treat your character with reference to the Rubric above as if they are 10 lvls lower than their actual lvl (i.e. lvl 1-10 will be treated as unproven upstarts, 10-20 as heroes of some proven ability, and lvls 20-30 as great heroes/villains of the realm - by level 30, you should have established much of your claim to fame through RP anyway)"

Also, many use the "half of your IG level is your actual level" ruling.

The thing is, that this is how RP is believeable in a leveling sytem like this. And lorewise too. Or you think that it is ok, that 5-8 PCs -stronger- then Elminster casually hang around the fireplace near FAI? This is not meant as a personal attack, but that would not make any sense.

Thus, people in general assume, that you are powerful, but not a demigod at the IG level cap. So about level 15 in PnP.

[Maximvs]

Btw I agree with the concept of dividing PC lvls in half. What you just quoted is a start, but not enough, because that ruling applies only to that DM's events. That's not server wide.

[kellendril]

Remember to keep it civil folks, this seems like it might get heated. It's a reasonable discussion to have in my opinion. The debate should stick to the original topic

[Maximvs]

Arguments happen. There's nobody insulting anyone here. But as you say, to go back to the subject, we were talking about how difficult it is to cross the UD - Surface, because of the really hard zone that requires you to be very high level.

If we take Drizzt for example, he's lvl 16 in the third edition, and he had the time to do a lot of battles on the surface and gain plenty of xp. What was his level when he first escaped the underdark? Was he level 5, or maybe 10, top? And if we pretend this half-level-ruling is server wide, then what lvl was drizzt when he escaped the underdark, was he the equivalent of lvl 10, or 20 ?

In my opinion, as it currently stands, the UD - Surface path is just wayyyyyyyyyyy too difficult. As in it doesn't necessarily represent lore, it's an obstacle placed there for the purpose of dividing us.

[Nyeleni]

Open a new thread in the forum if you want to write about interaction. This is about an UD expansion as the title says.