Brain-storming the Underdark / Surface interaction

[Aspect of Sorrow]

(okay maybe that is a bit over dramatic but seems like people are comparing the trip to a stroll down the Appalachian Trail..

Never underestimate black bears and smelly thieving hippies who like to hold your gear hostage at knife point.

I tell you what. Allow Drow on the surface, but take away Spell Resistance and the +2 to Int (they can go to ECL1) so they are roughly equal to surface races. If the RP is all they're after then I should hear a chorus of approval...

The run to the surface is an individual option of the player, not to be forced upon the entirety of the UD playerbase.

[Thorsson]

The run to the surface is an individual option of the player, not to be forced upon the entirety of the UD playerbase.

Based on previous experience, forcing is unlikely to be needed.

[Flasmix]

It is in my opinion that a minority has ruined any surface/UD interaction for the majority. The minority being those who just go to the surface for just PvP purposes. I would like to see the UD/Surface rules slackened to where those who wish to travel can do so freely, but if it's just for PvP and there's repeated complaints about someone, they get punished directly.

To be honest, the current method of enforcement is just in place due to laziness and not wanting to enforce anything.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

The run to the surface is an individual option of the player, not to be forced upon the entirety of the UD playerbase.

Based on previous experience, forcing is unlikely to be needed.

Then there's no need for the stat / SR difference.

[Narsil]

It is in my opinion that a minority has ruined any surface/UD interaction for the majority. The minority being those who just go to the surface for just PvP purposes. I would like to see the UD/Surface rules slackened to where those who wish to travel can do so freely, but if it's just for PvP and there's repeated complaints about someone, they get punished directly.

To be honest, the current method of enforcement is just in place due to laziness and not wanting to enforce anything.

This. It pretty much sums up the thread, and likely leads to the same conclusion of the previous 377 times this has been debated here on the Forums.

Too many who don't give a damn about rules, lore, etc........ Their special snowflake drow is "different", after all !

Between the merciless PvP griefing (from both sides), the sight of Drow casually strolling the shops of the Gate, and the current huge absence of DM's online to "police" this garbage......... ( 'cause DM's enjoy that stuff SO much.)

Nope, I suspect the current status quo will remain in place for the foreseeable future. And despite my YEARS of wishing the old days of an active Shevarashian guild could return, when I sit and think about it, I doubt I would even bother after the first time seeing Drow partying it up at the FAI campfire.

I hate to say that, but it's the absolute truth.

[Thorsson]

The run to the surface is an individual option of the player, not to be forced upon the entirety of the UD playerbase.

Based on previous experience, forcing is unlikely to be needed.

Then there's no need for the stat / SR difference.

No that's precisely why it's needed.

[Thorsson]

It is in my opinion that a minority has ruined any surface/UD interaction for the majority.

Based on last time the minority would become the majority...

[Darradarljod]

Just wanted to say, I did have a brilliant surface-underdark interaction recently. It voluntarily resulted in the perma-death of my surface character (and not from PvP).

I just wanted to thank those UD players involved in that RP for playing your drow so cleverly, and for doing the decent thing by ensuring my OOC consent to what went down. For the work you guys put in, you deserved that RP to continue to its intriguing end, whatever that was! I regret I may never know in full. Thanks for generating realistic surface-underdark interaction. You know who you are

[tfunke]

It is in my opinion that a minority has ruined any surface/UD interaction for the majority. The minority being those who just go to the surface for just PvP purposes. I would like to see the UD/Surface rules slackened to where those who wish to travel can do so freely, but if it's just for PvP and there's repeated complaints about someone, they get punished directly.

Agreed.
I think most importantly, the rules are outdated. They date from a time when the server was almost half the size it is now.
Personally I think allowing free travel for the player to do as they wish would invite more RP opportunities. Even if that resulted from initially 'grinding/exploring'. Why is grinding so vilified anyway? We all do it at some point or another. Especially poor 'underdarkees' because they really have far less areas than the surface. This would fix that in one fell swoop. If people see more friendly drow than they would otherwise feel comfortable with.. get over it? (Half-orcs?)
Again, opening up the servers areas and sharing them has great potential that I think the current rule setup is prohibiting.

My suggestions on updated rules? (just my opinion is all)
*Have repeated PvP offenders that are reported, severely punished, with fair emphasis and warning on this - whatever punishment seems fitting -permanent deletion of character would be my suggestion. Capital punishment, that should reduce the number of abusive offenders.
*Open up more entrances/exits to from surface/underdark (i know at least cloakwood and forest of wyrms are known to have portals to the UD)
*No Drow in Baldur's Gate city (risk losing 1 level if unexplained RP)
*No surfacer's in Sshamath and its surrounds (including varallas passage) (risk losing 1 level if unexplained RP)

Anyone got better/other suggestions?

[Steve]

*No Drow in Baldur's Gate city (risk losing 1 level if unexplained RP)
*No surfacer's in Sshamath and its surrounds (including varallas passage) (risk losing 1 level if unexplained RP)

Anyone got better/other suggestions?

And, if the desire is not to burden the DMs with rules and restrictions and results, etc., just have mechanical race checks at transitions and literally prevent certain Races from being able to Godmod the Environment.

Build the Wall!!

[Nyeleni]

Hm Sshamath lives from the trade with very different outsiders. It would cut that rp out. Which would be a shame imo. Agreed on the Gate though.

[Thorsson]

So as if tree-hugging Orcs wasn't bad enough, now we're to have tree-hugging Drow, sitting around the FAI campfire? Lord give me strength.

[Blackman D]

would also conflict with my guild on both ends (tho mainly with not being able to bring people to the UD since we usually stay out of BG anyway)

So as if tree-hugging Orcs wasn't bad enough, now we're to have tree-hugging Drow, sitting around the FAI campfire? Lord give me strength.

yea...

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Hm Sshamath lives from the trade with very different outsiders. It would cut that rp out. Which would be a shame imo. Agreed on the Gate though.

Not much of that exists.

So as if tree-hugging Orcs wasn't bad enough, now we're to have tree-hugging Drow, sitting around the FAI campfire? Lord give me strength.

Maintain a KoS.

[Lambe]

Hm Sshamath lives from the trade with very different outsiders. It would cut that rp out. Which would be a shame imo. Agreed on the Gate though.

Not much of that exists.

So as if tree-hugging Orcs wasn't bad enough, now we're to have tree-hugging Drow, sitting around the FAI campfire? Lord give me strength.

Maintain a KoS.

You're opening up a whole 'nother can of worms by suggesting that. Perhaps update the PVP rules first, because that's where this will lead. And no, I'm not going to spend precious amount of my time trying to unmask a suspicious figure which is clearly drow but have to go through so much red tape just to validate any action aginst them. I'd rather just walk away, but my toon might not. Just like orcs, their mere presence changes most people's play and not in a pleasant way