Bear Warrior build

[Prynio]

So my make this cool Barbarian, that will transform to a bear. He will be cute and all, but i have do have a question about a build you would guys suggest. I'm sure I want to mix barbarian, battle rager and bear warrior. The question is - in what proportions?

It seem it is best to have 5 class of Battle Rager, because all those beautiful feats - best charge ever, +2 AC, unarmed strike (so good for bears). Extended rage a little wasted, but ok.

About other two I have two ideas - 15 B/10 BW - for obvious reson. Dire bear. Or 18 B/7 BW - because Extent Rage II is at 7 BW and nothing more until 10, and i get Tireless Rage from 17 B, which is just so usefull.

Do you think it's better to take feats for unarmed fighting (bear form) or dwarfen axe (weapon of choice in dwarf form)? Or maybe just focus on general talents like more rages, blind fighting and some better rolls?

[ZabelSword]

I've been playing a human version of this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?111541

Pretty fun to play so far (only lvl 9 right now), you could replace fist of the forest and 2 barb levels with battle rager. I am not a good builder though, which is why I take other peoples creation and modify them to what I want to play. It seems like the bear warrior class demands an all or nothing type of treatment though. I think you will be disappointed if you try to grab waraxe feats because your bear form will be weakened.

[Prynio]

Thanks for this insight, I might have to RCR my char a little now. Any more advices are welcome.

[Thorsson]

1. FoF AC does not stack with Bear Warrior. I RCR'd my BW for this reason.

2. You really need to take 10BW (Dire has 7 more AC!) and that means no 17 levels of Barbarian.

3. Given that you don't get that far maybe take some levels of Fighter for the Bonus Feats; plus 4 levels could get you MWM (Unarmed).

[Rudolph]

Two more points for your consideration (the first may be irrelevant, but still):
1) You don't need Improved Unarmed Strike for the bear: it seems that it gets creature weapons that are linked to the Unarmed weapon feats, but are not counted as unarmed attacks themselves, i.e. they don't cause attacks of opportunity.
2) You don't need tireless rage for the bear rages. Unlike the Barbarian ones, the bear rages don't tire you out.

[Prynio]

Wow, thank you guys! Some of those info is really crucial!

You don't need tireless rage for the bear rages. Unlike the Barbarian ones, the bear rages don't tire you out.

This is huge. But this is still the same rage, and all "extent rage" and "additional rage" feats works fine with it?

You don't need Improved Unarmed Strike for the bear: it seems that it gets creature weapons that are linked to the Unarmed weapon feats, but are not counted as unarmed attacks themselves, i.e. they don't cause attacks of opportunity.

My English is not that great, so tell me if I got you right - all feats to unarmed fighting works good with BW, but he does not need IUS, because he does not cause attacks of opportunity anyway?

FoF AC does not stack with Bear Warrior

Do you perhaps know if it works with Battle Rager's +2 AC and charge feats?

You really need to take 10BW (Dire has 7 more AC!) and that means no 17 levels of Barbarian.

Given that you don't get that far maybe take some levels of Fighter for the Bonus Feats; plus 4 levels could get you MWM (Unarmed)

So would you recommend 11B/4W/5BR/10BW or 16B/4W/10BW? This first option fits me better RP-wise, but will I suffer some penalties for that?

And other thing - if I take so many feats for unarmed fighting is it wise to fight with fists in dwarf form or should I still carry my rusty axe?

Once again thanks you guys so much for all those infos. You guys are the best!

[Thorsson]

This is huge. But this is still the same rage, and all "extent rage" and "additional rage" feats works fine with it?

Yes, but it only applies to Bear Rages. Barbarian Rages will still fatigue you.

My English is not that great, so tell me if I got you right - all feats to unarmed fighting works good with BW, but he does not need IUS, because he does not cause attacks of opportunity anyway?

Yes, but this is ONLY while in Bear Form.

Do you perhaps know if it works with Battle Rager's +2 AC and charge feats?

IDK, but you should test, because in Bear shape you are no longer a Dwarf. Shapechanging breaks racial benefits.

So would you recommend 11B/4W/5BR/10BW or 16B/4W/10BW? This first option fits me better RP-wise, but will I suffer some penalties for that?

And other thing - if I take so many feats for unarmed fighting is it wise to fight with fists in dwarf form or should I still carry my rusty axe?

Presuming that W=F then the first looks good; I have done something similar but with Human using FB. If you wish to use Fists in Dwarf shape you will need IUS.

[Prynio]

Yes, but it only applies to Bear Rages. Barbarian Rages will still fatigue you.

Now I'm a little confused. I thought bear rage replace barbarian one. Do I get new type of rage? How many uses do I get? Does it have another counter then barbarian one, or I have some "stacks" of rage and I can use them on whatever rage I want?

Presuming that W=F then the first looks good.

W stand for Warrior. My bad. P Now I see that probably the strongest combination would be 6B/4F/10BW/10FB. I need to think about it.

I have done something similar but with Human using FB. If you wish to use Fists in Dwarf shape you will need IUS

This I understand, but my question here is - do you think it is a good idea to do so?

[chad878262]

W stand for Warrior. My bad. P Now I see that probably the strongest combination would be 6B/4F/10BW/10FB. I need to think about it.

No. 10 FB is not the best. 11B/4F/10BW/5FB is better. FB doesn't give much of value past level 5.

[Prynio]

No. 10 FB is not the best. 11B/4F/10BW/5FB is better. FB doesn't give much of value past level 5.

I guess Supreme Power Attack is not 5-lvls-better then Enhanced Power Attack, got it. At this point it only makes me sad that I can't do 6B/4F/10BW/5FB/5BR

[Thorsson]

Now I'm a little confused. I thought bear rage replace barbarian one. Do I get new type of rage? How many uses do I get? Does it have another counter then barbarian one, or I have some "stacks" of rage and I can use them on whatever rage I want?

This I understand, but my question here is - do you think it is a good idea to do so?

Yes you're right on rages. Sorry for the confusion.

Unarmed is probably a good idea if you have IUS, WS/MWM and some decent gloves. The gloves don't carry over into bear shape though.

[Rudolph]

Thorsson answered pretty much everything. Re. the little that is still open:

1) I'm 90% sure the Battle Rager AC transfers (if you still wanna take it). It's stackable Natural AC, I think.
2) Depending on items, fists in non-wildshape might be good, but they cost you a feat without Battle Rager. Furthermore, the axe can be wielded with two hands for another 10 dmg from EPA and frees up gloves with other bonuses. I'd go for that rusty axe for the most part.
3) Given that you'll be a little feat starved: there's an amulet in a shop in the game that gives +3 Nat AC, Extend Rage and Extra Rage. The latter can save you a feat, and the 3 AC come in handy outside wildshape. Extend you'll already have. The amulet is quite expensive of course...

[Prynio]

The gloves don't carry over into bear shape though.

And how about all magic res items, all spell immunity items? Should I forget about them too?

I'm 90% sure the Battle Rager AC transfers (if you still wanna take it). It's stackable Natural AC, I think.

Thanks, but after doing some research, I can see that I would just lose too much if I don't take 4F and 5 FB

Depending on items, fists in non-wildshape might be good, but they cost you a feat without Battle Rager. Furthermore, the axe can be wielded with two hands for another 10 dmg from EPA and frees up gloves with other bonuses. I'd go for that rusty axe for the most part.

Good point, thanks. Fighting with fists lost it's climate because of monks anyway (at least for me)

Given that you'll be a little feat starved

Well, you got me a little scared here. Why should I be starved on feats? I'm lvl 7, I already have all PCR feats, weapon focus and weapon specialization (unarmed). I'm thinking about some blind fighting and maybe greater power attack, and then rest in additional/extent rages until epic feats. Did I miss something important here?

[Thorsson]

Forget items with spell immunity as they work only once, then they need to be unequipped and re-equipped before working again. Personally I wouldn't bother myself much with resistance items either, but others may differ.

You're not Feat-starved unless you think you are. You should be fine.

[ZabelSword]

1. FoF AC does not stack with Bear Warrior. I RCR'd my BW for this reason.

I knew that going into it but the other bonuses are still nice. Also, I like the aspect of my PC being a survivalist that can live off the wilderness without weapons.

Sorry Prynio, I don't think that contributes much to your discussion, but I think these mighty builders have helped you create a bear warrior that fits with what you want to play that can be about as powerful as it can be. So thank you Thorson and Rudolph for helping him.