Shadow Simulacrum and the new copy illusions

[Ariella]

So simple question are they against the city's laws as they are not technically summons but illusion copy's.

[DM Ditto]

Technically they aren't summons, but would the average citizen or guard know that?

[Ariella]

Well they are exact copy's so if we are talking average i would say they would not know they are anything but the people they are copied. Unless they have true seeing but then they would know them to be illusions.

[Stonebar]

If discovered I'd bet any guard would but unhappy to find out someone has been magically cloning themselves out in the common public areas. How suspect would that look. It reeks of so much nefarious uses. Ten times more so if it's a copy of someone other then the caster. I would think that's at least partly illegal to magically copy and then use someone's image with out approval of said person? It would be as suspect as discovering someone had a fake disguise on. That said I doubt a common guard atleast would look close enough to notice in a city the size of Baldur's gate for example.

[Tsidkenu]

I'm pretty sure these spells are limited by their duration (1 round/caster level). If someone wants to wander around the city invisible and using their copy as a ventriloquistic body double, they should go for it! Better than putting yourself at risk, right Charraj?

[DM Ditto]

Shadow Simulacrum appears to be a spell made specifically for NWN2, as there is no mention of it in official sources (the closest would be simulacrum, a level 7 spell from Pathfinder, which has some similarities). As a result, I would need to take the spell at face value and draw from its representation in-game.



While Shadow Simulacrum does create a copy of the targeted creature, you would still have no problem telling the real boar apart from the simulacrum in the screenshot. Shadow simulacra also have an innate 20% concealment which can be represented by a number of things, such as being displayed at a different location than where you actually are (displacement), or incorporeality (ghosts), and the visual of a shadow simulacrum appears to imply that the copy is partially incorporeal. It is not impossible to think that the in-game representation is for more than letting the player tell them apart; otherwise, you would have to ask the same of other spells and effects that are highly visible without the need of True Seeing, such as Deez's Repulsive Shadow Barrier.


edit: There is also the time frame to consider, as Tsidkenu mentioned. The copy will only last a few minutes at most and cannot be extended, so the use of a shadow simulacrum for extended periods would not be viable.


Even for the uninformed, a shadow simulacrum will be immediately identified as something of magic (or, at least, wrapped in ominous-looking magic) and will likely draw attention, and a guard may feel like stretching the laws enough to get you in trouble. I'd say to err on the side of caution when using a shadow simulacrum in NPC-controlled areas.

Hope this helps.

[Tsidkenu]

Btw Ditto, the spells Ariella is referring to are Programmed Image I, II, III and to a lesser extent Mislead (although the Mislead copy instantly legs it to the nearest transition as soon as it spawns in ). The other three follow the caster as a summon would.

[Ariella]

To a side note on your screen shot Shadow Simulacrum's effects a little different on bg and the shadow part only happens at creation. Once the illusion is fully formed it loses the spell effect and looks exactly like the creature.

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Now it does have concealment but i think that's the mechanical way of representing its only 3/4ths real, Keeping in mind that most illusions are 0% real and you still can't notice that without making a disbelief roll. A disbelief roll requiring physical contact or a reason to be made of course.

EDIT: Also i believe the spell was pulled from second edition, The shadow monsters, Demishadow monsters and Shades set with some nwn2 alternation.

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Shadow Monsters
(Illusion/Phantasm)
Range: 30 yds. Components: V, S
Duration: 1 rd./level Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 20-ft. cube Saving Throw: Special
A wizard casting the shadow monsters spell uses material from the Demiplane of
Shadow to shape semireal illusions of one or more monsters. The total Hit Dice of the
shadow monster or monsters thus created cannot exceed the level of experience of the
wizard; thus, a 10th-level wizard can create one creature that has 10 Hit Dice, two that
have 5 Hit Dice, etc. All shadow monsters created by one spell must be of the same sort.
The actual hit point total for each monster is 20% of the hit point total it would normally
have. (To determine this, roll the appropriate Hit Dice and multiply the hit points by .2.
Any remainder less than .4 is dropped--in the case of monsters with 1 or fewer Hit Dice,
this indicates the monster was not successfully created--and scores between .4 and 1 are
rounded up to 1 hit point.)
Those viewing the shadow monsters are allowed to disbelieve as per normal illusions,
although there is a -2 penalty to the attempt. The shadow monsters perform as the real
monsters with respect to Armor Class and attack forms. Those who believe in the shadow
monster suffer real damage from their attacks. Special attack forms such as petrification
or level drain do not actually occur, but a subject who believes they are real will react
appropriately.
Those who roll successful saving throws see the shadow monsters as transparent
images superimposed on vague shadowy forms. These are Armor Class 10 and inflict
only 20% of normal melee damage (biting, clawing, weapon, etc.), dropping fractional
damage less than .4 as done with hit points.
For example: A shadow monster griffon attacks a person who knows it is only quasireal.
The monster strikes with two claw attacks and one bite, hitting as a 7-Hit Die
monster. All three attacks hit; the normal damage dice are rolled, multiplied by .2
separately, rounded up or down, and added together to get the total damage. Thus, if the
attacks score 4, 2 and 11 points, a total of 4 points of damage is inflicted (4 x .2 = .8
[rounded to 1], 2 x .2 = .4 [rounded to 1], 11 x .2 = 2.2 [rounded to 2]. The sum is 1 + 1 +
2 = 4)

Demishadow Monsters
(Illusion/Phantasm)
Range: 30 yds. Components: V, S
Duration: 1 rd./level Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: 20-ft. cube Saving Throw: Special
This spell is similar to the 4th-level spell shadow monsters, except that the monsters
created are effectively 40% of normal hit points. If the saving throw is made, their
damage potential is only 40% of normal and their Armor Class is 8. The monsters have
none of the special abilities of the real creatures, although victims may be deluded into
believing this to be so

Shades
(Illusion/Phantasm)
Range: 30 yds. Components: V, S
Duration: 1 rd./level Casting Time: 6
Area of Effect: 20-ft. cube Saving Throw: Special
This spell is related to the shadow monsters and demishadow monsters spells. The
shades spell uses material from the Demiplane of Shadow to form semireal illusions of
one or more monsters, up to 1 Hit Die per caster level. All shades created by one spell
must be of the same sort, and they have 60% of the hit point total the real creatures would
have. Those who view the shades and fail their saving throws vs. spell believe the
illusion.
The shades perform as the real monsters with respect to Armor Class and attack forms.
Special attack forms such as petrification or level drain do not actually occur, but a
subject who believes the shades are real will react appropriately, until the illusion is
countered by a dispel magic spell or the condition is countered by a heal spell. Those
who roll successful saving throws see the shades as transparent images superimposed on
vague shadowy forms. These are Armor Class 6 and cause only 60% of the true monsters'
normal melee damage.

[DM Ditto]

Response was delayed due to a combination of testing the spells, work, and considering practical applications in BG. I couldn't get Programmed Image to work, so I will need to pull from the spell description.

To answer the original question, while you could make the argument that illusionary copies of your character technically aren't summons because of so-and-so, and are thus legal, that would be splitting hairs and I very highly doubt the average guard would bother with semantics, or have a battlecaster on the line to give a lecture over the minute differences between a summon and an illusionary copy. As far as the watch is concerned, a summoned creature is a summoned creature, regardless if it was conjured from thin air in your own image, summoned from a different plane, or by some other method. For the purposes of magic shows and performances, the guards may allow some leeway, and I'd suggest putting a line towards the DM team if you wish to do this to ensure that you're in the clear. Who knows, we may even lend a hand.

Finding out if it is a summoned creature or your character having a twin sibling is another matter, though. Most of them could pass notice if guards were bored enough, but the fact that they would look exactly like your character is going to draw some attention. For Programmed Image, all it would take is someone bumping into the image, as the spell mimics everything but tangibility and even the most dull-witted guard is going to do a double-take at the bumping citizen passing through the image instead if you do not focus and have the image "react" accordingly beforehand. Baldur's Gate has more people than is shown in-game in order to avoid bogging down the server, so just because you do not see them does not mean they are not present.

The VFX for Shadow Simulacrum does disappear after one round, and I'll have to remember that for the future. It would be the likeliest spell to use if you want to bring an image of yourself in the city (due to it being tangible enough to be interactable in the physical world), but its short duration makes it impractical for doing anything that takes a decent amount of time.


edit: reference above: If you have to pull from three spells to approximate what Shadow Simulacrum does, I'd still call it an original spell made for NWN2!

[Ariella]

Alright! Thank you for the response!.