Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[thids]

That is a faulty logic Karond, seeing as FS in particular brings very little positives and a whole bag of negatives to the table.

[jordanreiss89]

I think changing the spell casting is a good fix. It hurts non aasimar FS more. But they would still be playable. This looks as though it will lower their a/c, they will have fewer skill points. Which will more than likely lower a/c further or saves or both. And fewer spells. I think this would be a change for the better. I don't think they should be removed as I have the same view as Karond on that.

[Deathgrowl]

Realise, please, that QC isn't making recommendations based on RP viability. Ours is to balance mechanics. If you want to advocate the removal of a base class, do it towards the DM team.

I disagree with you, though, Thids. FS is viable for RP. But that's not the problem. The problem is that people pick it for power and don't RP it. It's like those silly 3 level cleric dips for domains. No one RPs those dips to any real degree.

But that isn't a balance issue, and so not a topic for this discussion.

[RagingPeace]

I realise this will effect more classes, but has the QC team considered removing Epic Divine might, or maybe limiting it to paladins? Just a thought.

[Akroma666]

I have to disagree with both proposed ideas; the removal and the imposed wisdom change. The class isn't the issue, its the power that's the issue. It doesn't need a complete stat overhaul, it needs to feel a bottleneck and weakness as other classes do.

My suggestion (although not myown):
Reduce the spells known progression to be on par with a sorcerer.
Current Spell progression for FS is: 9/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/4
Sorc and proposed spell progression: 9/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/3/3

Reducing the versatility will make increase the classes weaknesses and make it more niche like most classes are. You will still be strong, just not as versatile.

Edit: Thanks for asking for our input QC!

[Ariella]

I would also vote for removal or a lot more then this small nerf. In addition i would say change their spell progression to match a sorc's as Akroma666 suggests

[Karond]

That is a faulty logic Karond, seeing as FS in particular brings very little positives and a whole bag of negatives to the table.

Any class adds to variety. The negatives? Mechanically, I feel this change would correct a lot of what makes people dump on FS. For roleplay, see Deathgrowl's post. People can be snowflakes without FS as their class though

[thids]

ofc they can, other classes don't force them with their RP to be snowflakes though. Variety within reason is a nice thing, favored soul brings nothing to variety since most people RP them as clerics anyway. And mechanically? They have spells from the clerics spellb ook. It's just easy mode cleric (who is already easy to play mechanically). I wouldn't call that contributing to variety exactly. Also, aren't we getting some kind of kits or whatever? Is variety truly an issue on BG?

[arakes99]

Does anyone NOT want to see this class weakened? Now would be a good time to state your case.

And honestly I think if you limit the power, people will be far more inclined to play them for the RP and actually RP it that way. Not just because its a good way to press the win button.

[Nemni]

Spontaneous charisma-based casting seems to me to be a big part of the essence of what a favoured soul is, so I don't support changing it. No big deal though.

The suggestion of removing an orignal base class I have to really object to though. The goal should always be to provide more options, not less. Balance suggestions that means cutting away standard classes from the game is the perfect example of why nerf-discussions are a bad idea to begin with, imho.

(And no I don't play one myself).

[Aeb Ankor]

I would prefer to see the Class removed.

However, there are some that may truly miss the RP aspect of a favored soul:

"Mortals who perform great services to deities, devoting their lives and work to the cause of their god or goddess, sometimes become the Chosen of that deity."

So as an unsolicited suggestion, could the Favored Soul be made a 10 level PrC, with keeping the existing 1–10 level progression, but putting Weapon Specialization on the 10th level? Maybe even reduce spell progression to 7/10?

The WIS/CHA switch doesn't really appear to be a fix for OPness, just a change of build plans.

This...

[LISA100595]

This was my initial response about it:

In my opinion the class is fine as it is. If you start "fixing" that class, you'll have to "fix" the rest. Those kind of things belong on a specialty server, not BG.

I have played on servers that have "fixed" favored souls and or removed the class.. those servers sadly but expectedly, did not survive.

In a server like BG we want to encourage people to play what they like. If people do not wish to play a favored soul or don't like them, they should not play them. I play a Spirit Shaman as my main and I have never had a problem with favored souls from RP all the way to PVP.

So my main point is to stop the Nerfing and instead concentrate on adding Features and Benefits to attract more players instead of driving them away and that is exactly what this will do, with very little benefit. The Risks outweigh the Rewards in my opinion and experience.

[Tsidkenu]

I'm a little surprised to see so many already calling for its complete removal, which I feel is a good thing. That is my preferred option as well, and I know it is a sentiment shared by a few others in the dev/qc/dm teams.

Unlike Karond, I have absolutely no qualms with diminishing broken and terribad content, like FS and RDD in their vanilla incarnations, and I've expressed that opinion repeatedly QC-side.

[Empoweredfan]

A mandatory roleplay perimiter might be added to them, such as with Paladins. Or a limmit which class they can be leveled with, such as with druids and monks if nerfing them would be a problem.

An oath they cannot break or something of the like.

And Lisa, though I respect you profoundly, I think you will find that adding too much can damage something just as much. This I won't tie down to the FS class, but because the thread in general remind me so much of the D&D rule books that I've read. Where I am willing to be that there are hundreds of books (more than 200 books, to clarify it) for things that are just as easy for players to make something up for themselves. That sort of ruined pnp for me. (Sorry, couldn't help but complain about something irrelevant to make subtle jabs at something that isn't quite on the issue for this thread).

[Calodan]

This would effectively retire Kory for me. However since I am a few not a many do what you will......Guess I will just give up on spear builds since this was the only way to make a one handed spear build viable. How about making spears more useful then?