Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[Eclypticon]

Favored Souls really should not have been given the green light back when Josh and Driller started this PW. Ideally, it would be removed rather than changed. I'm not supporting a rebalanced this time. Pull it or leave it as it is.

[Blame The Rogue]

those four new players we lost are likely gone for good.

Don't worry too much about players leaving due to minor mechanical builds. They can go to Realm of Trinity play with their +12 STR gloves and +10 weapons with +4d6 electrical bonus damage if they want to.

apologies, but not the point i was going for

good rpers leaving due to a few things about the server that are easily correctable is a bad thing. i refer to rules as well as mechanics

those players were looking for fun and rp, not high magic items. we want players looking for fun and rp to play here, not elsewhere

FS changes and other changes are okay if done correctly, and in moderation

[arakes99]

The XP and Loot tables are completely and totally a separate issue from class balance. Balancing for certain builds is part of what makes leveling as difficult as it currently is.

[TheLier]

Will be short coz on phone

I fully support this, both rp and mechanics wise. This is an RP server and the fact that there are so many of one rare Class, usually with little rp, is kinda imerrsion breaking IMO.
Next should be making pure paladin viable or maybe making sorc and wizard more fundamentally different.
So, thank you QC

[Blame The Rogue]

but they are connected, as casters, including FSs, emulate item stats, and at +1 more than what can be found on an item. which i feel is okay, as casters have rest timers and no rest areas to contend with

it seems lowering number of spells and removing DR are good options for FS balance imo

i do not wish to derail from the main topic of FSs. my opinions on FS have been given and clarified. if someone wishes to start another post solely for server balance, i'd be happy to offer my opinions there

[mrm3ntalist]

Human FS/Cleric with proposed changes - http://nwn2db.com/build/?248875
Aasimar FS/Cleric with proposed changes - http://nwn2db.com/build/?248876

It looks like that human FSs with EDM will struggle for ability points, leaving them with just 2 spare epic feats - enough for picking EW.

Aasimars on the other hand will have it much easier. With this change it looks like that there will be a big increase on Aasimar FSs.

In general this is a small nerf.

For builds like Calodan's Kory ( non EDM FSs ), this change will have no effect.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

I would want a more significant nerf. Maybe what you propose Karond along with removal of the DR and one save? Right now they are practically unstoppable. Fantastic DR, AC, DPS, saves, spells, healing, etc etc etc. From the RP standpoint they are immediately handicapped by the lack of uniqueness yet still being lorewise a snowflake. The only class I hate more are bards but they will never be altered so meh.

[jordanreiss89]

After reading everyone's ideas. I think some of the other suggestions would be better. The ones that stood out to me would be lowering the spells per day to be more inline with sorcerers, and maybe saves and the DR. I do not play a FS but I have built one with the full rcr to see why they are so OP. And I do plan on building one in the future so I would be pretty sad to see it go. I know you all in QC will make the right choices for the server either way! Good luck with this one!

[Tantive]

I've not played the class, but it has always been on the mind. The Roleplay possibility that you're bound to do your deities bidding without even meaning or wishing to? That has flavor.

[ShortRedandLoud]

I don't support removing it.

I support this:

Reduce the spells known progression to be on par with a sorcerer.
Current Spell progression for FS is: 9/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/4
Sorc and proposed spell progression: 9/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/3/3

And:

Saving Throws:
Fort -> Low
Reflex -> Low

I can't comment on higher level play, but early on they're probably strongest. The spells known isn't really a limitation even early on, as they get just a few too many.

I don't like the Wis for casting change, as it feels thematically incorrect. If it wouldn't buff a class that doesn't really need it, I'd prefer Charisma for casting and DCs for FS and Spirit Shaman, because the split casting strikes me as a terrible thing. Charisma as a casting stat I think is valuable in differentiating it thematically from cleric.

The weapon focuses and energy and DR always struck me as a sort of boring suite of powers. Replacing them, or removing them entirely, would not bother me too much. The class would probably still be strong.

It does seem clear that people have an issue with the class thematically. The class could probably use a concept rework as well as mechanic rework.

Maybe instead of being favored by one deity, they're favored by a 'domain'?

So a Water Domain FS would get no weapon focuses, but cold resistance.
And a War Domain FS would get weapon focuses, but no resistances.

or other thematic powers that are lesser than what they get now

and idk balance or some shit what am i a game designer gd

[Kiran]

My 10 cents.

I am a player of FVS, have been since I started my char Damien Pascal and I know for a fact with the crap gear I got. I am op compared to other classes I can tank heal dps, have high high ac, resists, defesnses immunities, essentially I am able to solo most epic bosses at level 21 now at 24 its a bit of a laugh.

Do they need nerfing?

100%

Should they be removed? I think thats a good idea.

I really wanna play a blackguard instead but I have tried it. with different builds and its pointless compared to the glory of a fvs. I dont enjoy pve at all as a blackguard, might as well just go cleric/fighter and be done with it.

Cant we look to remove FVS but buff things like Paladins/Blackguards and classes similiar to it?

[Boddynock]

The problem I have always had with FS is that their granted suite of powers makes little sense from a RP perspective and reads instead like a designer cherry picked a bunch of good abilities from other classes and tossed them all together to make a custom face roller class. "Man, barbs suck, but that DR is nice, lets take that! Dude, haste is good, but this is a divine class...let's just give it too them anyway! They aren't fighters, but those weapons feats are pretty nifty, lets take focus and specialization and throw them in the mix... Oh man, monks saves are great, let's get that too!"

What you end up with is a badly designed class that brings NOTHING to the table that is purely it's own, it is simply a miss-match of other class abilities and nonsensical granted powers. I am not opposed or for any changes that don't address the lore reasoning behind why they can do what they do. And "Oh, because a god likes me a lot" is bull, that is a decision only a DM can make. The ability to choose, as a class at creation, the favor of a god...well that has always sat wrong with me.

I don't mind them being powerful, I have always minded that they are poorly designed, and their implementation feels like a derivative mix of other class abilities. I can't really find anything about them that I can point to and say "That is a favored soul's defining ability."

[Blackman D]

well i suppose one option for that would be to turn it into a PrC and cut it down to 10 levels

[Moridin]

I am not against this change myself. The reason why is that currently most "clerics" one runs into are actually faithful souls.

[Boddynock]

I am not against this change myself. The reason why is that currently most "clerics" one runs into are actually faithful souls.

AS are a significant number of the "paladins."