Suggestion: Avernus

[Ariella]

Shops are easy to clone once they've been made. If you want a second shop in a more neutral location it's always something you could suggest to the devs for a future update.

That being said, I doubt it would be cloned right away -- that'd kind of rob people of reasons to go to Tfunke's new area. The shop is its primary selling point in terms of attracting players and RP to that map right now. Especially if it's a one-way trip at the moment.

The fact that people are selling the items second-hand already is also interesting to me, as it suggests it's already generating RP by making the items a valuable commodity for merchant RP and merchant PCs. If we made the NPCs too easily accessible, there'd be no reason to go through a PC middle-man.

It'd be less "epic shop" and more "expensive shop."

And in the mean time forces PC's of a good alignment to pay extra buying through PC merchants or encourages OOC RP. I personally like the idea of having to work to uncover the merchant or to shop, However the RP ramifications of buying from a devil do need to be considered in a RP server and the limitation such ramifications force upon the PCs.

[Boddynock]

Shops are easy to clone once they've been made. If you want a second shop in a more neutral location it's always something you could suggest to the devs for a future update.

That being said, I doubt it would be cloned right away -- that'd kind of rob people of reasons to go to Tfunke's new area. The shop is its primary selling point in terms of attracting players and RP to that map right now. Especially if it's a one-way trip at the moment.

The fact that people are selling the items second-hand already is also interesting to me, as it suggests it's already generating RP by making the items a valuable commodity for merchant RP and merchant PCs. If we made the NPCs too easily accessible, there'd be no reason to go through a PC middle-man.

It'd be less "epic shop" and more "expensive shop."

And in the mean time forces PC's of a good alignment to pay extra buying through PC merchants or encourages OOC RP. I personally like the idea of having to work to uncover the merchant or to shop, However the RP ramifications of buying from a devil do need to be considered in a RP server and the limitation such ramifications force upon the PCs.

This could also be solved by simply changing the shopkeeper to something other than a devil, a visitor, or perhaps a slave or prisoner.

[thids]

*sigh*
How did it get from this http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=652140#p652140


to this:

The shop is its primary selling point in terms of attracting players and RP to that map right now.

[tfunke]

I have yet to get to Avernus, but there is supposed to be a way out.. I'm just not sure if anyone has figured it out yet? I'll post the spoilers in the QC section and see if it's working as intended. I hope so.

[Ariella]

Shops are easy to clone once they've been made. If you want a second shop in a more neutral location it's always something you could suggest to the devs for a future update.

That being said, I doubt it would be cloned right away -- that'd kind of rob people of reasons to go to Tfunke's new area. The shop is its primary selling point in terms of attracting players and RP to that map right now. Especially if it's a one-way trip at the moment.

The fact that people are selling the items second-hand already is also interesting to me, as it suggests it's already generating RP by making the items a valuable commodity for merchant RP and merchant PCs. If we made the NPCs too easily accessible, there'd be no reason to go through a PC middle-man.

It'd be less "epic shop" and more "expensive shop."

And in the mean time forces PC's of a good alignment to pay extra buying through PC merchants or encourages OOC RP. I personally like the idea of having to work to uncover the merchant or to shop, However the RP ramifications of buying from a devil do need to be considered in a RP server and the limitation such ramifications force upon the PCs.

This could also be solved by simply changing the shopkeeper to something other than a devil, a visitor, or perhaps a slave or prisoner.

it could yes! All valid options. Due to the blood war it could even be a number of different planer creatures.

[Stonebar]

True, a plains hopping traveling Wizard rather then a devil would fix most of the issue as the merchant.

Also using a middle man to get items from a devil is the same as buying from the devil.

That said, as everything these days more and more is being called an OOC action then why not Hell... For now at least I'm going to buy from Hell (assuming I can raise that much coin) And anyone that says other wise can go to Hell... and while they are there they can buy some items as well

[Snarfy]

Those are some... interesting suggestions.

~snip~... can you please come up with a way to give Players the freedom to access an Epic Shop through some alternative method that doesn't require mechanical power and/or the need to depend on other Players?

~snip~

So it still seems odd that there cannot be some more neutral and possible manner in which this Epic Shop can be accessed.

+1.

A little less excited to learn that it was pretty much only accessible to those who already have powerful items/builds/friends.

Right? It does seem rather counter-intuitive to see this shop, which arguably boasts the best NPC-purchasable items on the server, placed in an area where the most likely characters to reach it are powerbuilds ones that have been optimized for content.

Which brings us to the OP's suggestions, and the "RP" of it all...

An alignment based shop is silly. Unless you have an exact copy of that store for the other alignments. I dont have a singel character in my vault that could justify buying from a devil IC. I dont care if i have to fight to get to it but there needs to be another more neutral version.

The funny thing about this shop is, as Ariella(intentionally?) points out, it already is an alignment based shop. At least, it is for those who take their character and their RP seriously.

So, yes... please, changing the vendor to a more neutral type would be a great start. Otherwise, we're going to be dealing with...

... Making a deal with the devil can also have NO RP ramifications, on BGTSCC.

... and the server is already leaning too far towards RP-lite status as is.

[Maecius]

I have yet to get to Avernus, but there is supposed to be a way out.. I'm just not sure if anyone has figured it out yet? I'll post the spoilers in the QC section and see if it's working as intended. I hope so.

I'm pretty sure it's not at the moment. I'll let you know why QC side.

[tfunke]

True, a plains hopping traveling Wizard rather then a devil would fix most of the issue as the merchant.

I'm personally not against this idea. If people think its a better way to go, us devs can look into it as an option?

[Charraj]

can you please come up with a way to give Players the freedom to access an Epic Shop through some alternative method that doesn't require mechanical power

+1

True, a plains hopping traveling Wizard rather then a devil would fix most of the issue as the merchant.

I'm personally not against this idea. If people think its a better way to go, us devs can look into it as an option?

+1

[metaquad4]

And in the mean time forces PC's of a good alignment to pay extra buying through PC merchants or encourages OOC RP. I personally like the idea of having to work to uncover the merchant or to shop, However the RP ramifications of buying from a devil do need to be considered in a RP server and the limitation such ramifications force upon the PCs.

(Not targeting you personally Ariella, but I want to address this line of thought for any who might have it)

If you can't handle the idea that playing a certain alignment might lock you out of activities (and thus, potential rewards) that conflict with your character's RP, why are you RPing that alignment?

This sounds like the inability to deal with consequences to me. You choose an alignment/class/character idea, and consequences occur for your character. Being locked out of a shop run by an evil planar creature is one of them for good characters.

You don't see any druids complaining that they can't take place in a "defile nature" event and thus are being locked out of a loot reward by the DM, do you? Well, you might. If the druid couldn't handle the consequences of playing a druid (and shouldn't be playing a druid at all if this is the case).

If you can't handle the consequences of playing your character, play a character than you can actually handle. But remember, no matter what character you play, you'll miss out on some rewards.


---------------------

As for the topic at hand:

Alignment shifts, generally, seem like a bad idea. They are exploitable, and they are very biased (if you are going to account for a few, you have to balance good and evil alignment shifts. You need to account for all, or none at all. They are best left to DMs) currently towards evil shifts. The alignment scale doesn't shift only one way, but the current BG mechanics seem to think it does ;P (well, actually 2 ways. Blood Mage does grant some chaotic points too!)

Any good alignments entering Avernus should double the CR of spawns, representing the mobs and the amount of attention they're drawing to themselves for even going into the Hells.
---Why not. Variable areas sound like a fun idea.

Have a percentage chance that the items one buys are cursed after purchased! And the curse will manifest only after you hit the little okay button.
---Sounds like fun, sure. Can introduce more RP. Good!

[Ariella]

(Not targeting you personally Ariella, but I want to address this line of thought for any who might have it)

If you can't handle the idea that playing a certain alignment might lock you out of activities (and thus, potential rewards) that conflict with your character's RP, why are you RPing that alignment?

This sounds like the inability to deal with consequences to me. You choose an alignment/class/character idea, and consequences occur for your character. Being locked out of a shop run by an evil planar creature is one of them for good characters.

You don't see any druids complaining that they can't take place in a "defile nature" event and thus are being locked out of a loot reward by the DM, do you? Well, you might. If the druid couldn't handle the consequences of playing a druid (and shouldn't be playing a druid at all if this is the case).

If you can't handle the consequences of playing your character, play a character than you can actually handle. But remember, no matter what character you play, you'll miss out on some rewards.

This is not some rewards its an entire epic shop devoted to close the gap between mages and melee builds. In fact if you actually make it there you will see its closer to ten epic shops, Its not something that should be restricted to any alignment because its items are the new top tier standard.

[metaquad4]

Then, since your particular motive for getting the items is an OOC one (keeping up with the meta), there is a simple solution. Shop OOC. Grey orcs can go into cities to shop OOCly (or used to be able to. To my knowledge, they still need to). Quests are all OOC, too (unless you want to opt-in to make them IC). Throw up an AFK tag and go for it, generally speaking its in keeping with the server's philosophy of catering to everyone. That'd solve your particular dilemma with it, yes?

[Snarfy]

If you can't handle the idea that playing a certain alignment might lock you out of activities (and thus, potential rewards) that conflict with your character's RP, why are you RPing that alignment?

This sounds like the inability to deal with consequences to me. You choose an alignment/class/character idea, and consequences occur for your character. Being locked out of a shop run by an evil planar creature is one of them for good characters.

You don't see any druids complaining that they can't take place in a "defile nature" event and thus are being locked out of a loot reward by the DM, do you? Well, you might. If the druid couldn't handle the consequences of playing a druid (and shouldn't be playing a druid at all if this is the case).

If you can't handle the consequences of playing your character, play a character than you can actually handle. But remember, no matter what character you play, you'll miss out on some rewards.

.... are you serious? Consequences... sure.

This isn't rewards we're talking about, it's premium gear that was intended to be available for every character to purchase. As it currently stands, the only players who wont be able/are unwilling to purchase it from the evil planar NPC are a: players who aren't able to IC'ly find a group to get to the store, or B: those want to stay true to their characters, and not dilute their concepts by doing something blatantly OOC.

Basically, this shop, filled with premium gear that was intended for everyone, caters only to A: evil/CN leaning toons, B: players who are willing to OOC'ly team up and munchkin their way through the Hellz like it aint no thang, or C: players who have no problem going OOC to buy their billy gear... on a "Role-play" server.

Puh-lease.

*dies a little more inside*

[AC81]

On the other side of things ... if a shop like this existed on Main St , Baldurs Gate, that would be OOC too. The items in it are CRAZY good and belong in a shop in the planes!