Spot vs Listen

[Blame The Rogue]

though listen has always been said to be the better choice, i tend to go with spot on my archers. it just made more rp sense with their keen eyes

[Mallore]

Pick one to have a synergetic effect.

Spot = Spot + Listen

Hide = Hide + Move Silently

Let the engine handle Spot vs Hide

Of course, both Spot and Listen would need to be available to all classes capable of skilling eighter

Even if that was possible to do, what would this achieve other than make sneaks harder to detect m.

Sounds like a good enough reason to do it for me. Long live the sneak. Sneaks unit. Take back the night.

[NegInfinity]

Yeah arguing 3.5 purity as a reason to not do something is straw.

Skillsets and prestige classes on this server are based on 3.5 books. Pretty much all of them.

Introducing "stealth" will trigger bunch of balance issues the server will spend next 7 years dealing with.

I'd rather just play without having to deal with mechanics changing and new bugs being introduced every week. There are already plenty of bugs to fix.

So, if you want "stealth" skill, run your own server, introduce new mechanics, test them out, and then see if they work well or not.

[matelener]

Pick one to have a synergetic effect.

Spot = Spot + Listen

Hide = Hide + Move Silently

Let the engine handle Spot vs Hide

Of course, both Spot and Listen would need to be available to all classes capable of skilling eighter

Even if that was possible to do, what would this achieve other than make sneaks harder to detect?

- Listen is still the better detection skill. All spells give bonus to Hide ( scrolls/potions/wands ). At the same time only pass without a trace gives bonus to MS and that cannot be crafted to a wand or scroll or potion.

- There are some classes and prcs that get only listen. Bard, barbarian, palemaster. Its one way for them.

This was said as a possibility to circumvent the hardcoding in response to:

Hidden: show

I am fairly sure the Hide/MS vs. detection mechanics are hard coded. I don't think there is a way to circumvent them, otherwise 'stealth' vs. 'perception' would be fantastic, but even if possible it would probably be too time consuming to be a priority right now...

[Valefort]

Detection mechanics should probably be left alone now, if only to see if the changes are good.

The question remains though, is the slight detection advantage offered by listen over spot enough when you look at the other uses of spot ?

One of the suggestions is to be able to detect invisible units through a listen check, which makes sense to me and also happens to be true in pnp, would that be too much ?

Instead of outlining the creature like listen vs move silently does (and thus allowing you to metagame the creature) it could be a message "You hear footsteps nearby."

To be honest I would still get spot instead of listen when given the choice after such a change but at least it would bridge the gap a little bit !

[Mallore]

Yeah arguing 3.5 purity as a reason to not do something is straw.

Skillsets and prestige classes on this server are based on 3.5 books. Pretty much all of them.

Introducing "stealth" will trigger bunch of balance issues the server will spend next 7 years dealing with.

I'd rather just play without having to deal with mechanics changing and new bugs being introduced every week. There are already plenty of bugs to fix.

So, if you want "stealth" skill, run your own server, introduce new mechanics, test them out, and then see if they work well or not.

Don't get upset at me. I was just saying how nice it was and clearly stated it wouldn't be possible.

Just agree it be nice if it was in original code.

[Blackman D]

listen was never the better option it was just the easiest because there is only a single spell to help MS and its only for rangers... spot has always been mechanically better

they both require line of sight but listen does go pass line of sight just a bit, but not a lot, you can hear thru walls assuming you are close to them and you know what the room looks like (its not blacked out)

[Tsidkenu]

Spot also helps against Sleight of Hand!

Those with only ranks in listen are prone to potential metagaming, esp. when they abuse the listen detection mechanic to not only reveal the precise location of a character (which in itself is a DC of Move Silently score +20), but then identify them or call them out as if they had been seen. It's also an Epic Listen check with the same +20 to DC to pinpoint the precise location of an invisible creature instead of the more generic sense that 'something' is 'over in that direction somewhere.'

Just because you heard something doesn't mean you see something, irregardless of the black outliney NWN2 mechanics thing.