Paladins

[Randomgamer]

They have no role in a proper raiding party at all. If this was WoW , no one would allow them in a raid. You guys are not thinking big picture in a party dynamics and on top of that they have strict codes for RP. Insult to injury.

Even mentioning WoW and raiding parties probably just lost you about 90% of any support you may have had. This isn't WoW, no one wants it to be WoW.

I am going to reiterate that you might have better luck, as was mentioned before, asking for build help in the appropriate sub-forum.

In your opinon i guess which you were too lazy to even do a google search to look up the original box sets. Your arguement basically is paladins suck, live with it. So you agree with me. Only two folk here disagree really and surprisingly evil inclined folk selflessly agree with me that paladins should get attention with custom content and buffed a bit because they are clearly Underpowered here, especially considering the STRICT CODE OF RP surrounding them. Why don't you just play a main. A paladin of the Radiant heart then or silver rose. Put up or shut up.

[Randomgamer]

i believe he's just referring to party play in general. and mmos are a good reference for that

he feels he has nothing to add to the party dynamic

A fact lad, it's not how I feel. I know others are better suited at DPS, tanking, and support roles by experience. There is nothing a paladin does well unless they build specifically for an epic Smite. Lots of reasons to cross class though for saves and EDM.

[Aelcar]

Most people who play paladin will not build a 36 charisma epic smiter.

I honestly am not concerned with what "most people" play.

I Imagine it was a powerbuilt Aasimar for the stat bonuses as well instead of an RP race like halfling for example.

Wait, wasn't Paladin "trash" in your view? How come then it's now "powerbuilt" just because it's an Aasimar? Surely, a Halfling with the same build won't suffer overly much for having CHA 34 instead of 36?

Maybe you worded your OP poorly...?

I also do not appreciate your condescending tone and disrespectful nature of your post. If you can't be civil and respectful, then I'd ask you not to respond at all.

I get it, you don't like me stating simple facts. There's no need to try to apply indirect censorship to my posts just because I exposed the fact your accusations are based on false assumptions and misinformation. We're all friends here.

Fully buffed and even if i had EDM my character can't hold a candle to a warded up Frenzied berserker weaponmaster

EDM Paladin is ok, but having to raise STR so much isn't a good idea for a class that needs so many other stats. You should play FS or Cleric, then.

nor a Favored soul I've been farming with, nor a bard, nor the archers for that matter.

Favored Souls and Bards are very powerful, the Paladin is a bit more balanced, yes. Archers? They have more damage, but far less survivability, so that's a bad pick to make your point.

I think you guys are thinking in terms of trash mobs on the server and not bosses nor party play. Paladins are weak compared to any other DPS class or Tank class, they have nothing going for them at all besides a save boost which of course takes away from their AB and their DPS.

Hm. Also quite false. Paladins are excellent tanks, actually, and they pack quite a punch. If anything, they work a bit like wizards, insofar as their potential needs to be spent well, as it's limited in "charges" (spell slots & turn undead uses, mainly).

Paladins are below par at DPS, tanking, and support. They are a very bad feat starved class with some advantages against undead though bless weapon can be used on a wand or cast upon anyone for that matter.

Paladins aren't feat starved at all, actually. They are extremely good vs Undead, but not only because of bless weapon. And those things that make them good are valid for any other evil enemy as well. I don't think "below par" is appropriate, when you talk about their DPS...

I've played a lot of games, they are trash outside of some situational Epic Smite build and the vast majority of the people i talk to agree.

The same vast majority of people nobody competent cares about? That's pretty anecdotal, as evidence...maybe you can bring some numbers, or ask "the vast majority of people" to do so?

The server is very clearly anti lawful good in regards to additional content so I don't know why anyone is surprised, however, I am surprised that the the evil crowd is mostly about supporting and buffing paladins in general.

I've played lawful good lvl 30 paladin for a few years. The "server" is not against anything at all. I honestly don't know why anyone would reach such a conclusion...

Trash mobs? Any decent build can deal with them. Against Epic bosses , mini-bosses, and 'elite' trash mobs paladins are at a huge disadvantage to every class except perhaps barbarian.

Any decent build...? Didn't you just say they are trash?

There is no way a paladin can compete +AB wise with a DPS build, nor is there anyway they can compete with a tank damage mitigation build. Some of you are not thinking upon this group synergy wise. A paladin sucks at DPS and mitigation as a tank here. They have no role in a proper raiding party at all. If this was WoW , no one would allow them in a raid. You guys are not thinking big picture in a party dynamics and on top of that they have strict codes for RP. Insult to injury.

This isn't WoW. There are no raids. Paladin has excellent defenses and decent DPS, with very powerful spikes. The strict code for RP is a boon, in my view...I really enjoyed playing mine.

Nah. Cleric, favored soul are going to make me look like a NAB all day. I've been grouping with them. They out DPS my paladin and are for the most part better tanks. No way in hell a paladin can tank any non trash mob solo without a lot of heal pots.

I don't think you built a very good Paladin...no offense...

[chad878262]

Simply put if you are going to compare a mostly melee class with SOME spell casting to a FS, Cleric, Wizard, Warlock, etc. you are probably going to be disappointed. It is NOT our goal to balance paladins or any other class against a power-built Favored Soul. To put it bluntly, while you seem to think those that are telling you where to look are condescending you actually come off as bashing the way this server is set up without taking the initiative to fully research and understand the mechanics. Your Fighter/WM/FB will NEVER approach a Paladin for survivability and against Crit immune enemies where all you have is your extra damage from power attack an EDM paladin will out damage, out AC, out saves, pretty much out everything you. The simple fact is that balance is not about giving every class the ability to shine in every situation, but ensuring even the lesser powered classes have a niche. However, Paladin doesn't even fit in to that description because it is only 'beneath' the very top dog classes in PvM and PvP. By level 15 (by no means difficult to reach once you get your bearings and/or if you spend your time in parties) You can essentially (as a pure paladin) use Divine Might, Power Attack, and a bonus 2d6 vs. evil damage on a +5 keen weapon to hit more, and do more damage. In addition, when needed you are a button click away from Divine Shield to plop on top of your +5 heavy or tower shield to have higher AC then pretty much any non-caster class can ever hope to achieve.

As has been said numerous times, take another look and do your research... Paladin is not going to be as strong as a FS or Cleric or DC wizard (or any well built wizard) or dragon druid, but it is a very strong class that can solo MOST content if built well, warded up and possessing decent gear.

[Randomgamer]

Aelcar , everything you said pretty much validates what I said. If this, that, the other, thing and perfectly built a Paladin is marginally viable? Good point lad *sarcasim intended*. I can with the help of others build another character, but I'd rather be true to the Paladin genre RP wise since I have integrity. Take that as you will, IJS.

[Boddynock]

They have no role in a proper raiding party at all. If this was WoW , no one would allow them in a raid. You guys are not thinking big picture in a party dynamics and on top of that they have strict codes for RP. Insult to injury.

Even mentioning WoW and raiding parties probably just lost you about 90% of any support you may have had. This isn't WoW, no one wants it to be WoW.

I am going to reiterate that you might have better luck, as was mentioned before, asking for build help in the appropriate sub-forum.

In your opinon i guess which you were too lazy to even do a google search to look up the original box sets. Your arguement basically is paladins suck, live with it. So you agree with me. Only two folk here disagree really and surprisingly evil inclined folk selflessly agree with me that paladins should get attention with custom content and buffed a bit because they are clearly Underpowered here, especially considering the STRICT CODE OF RP surrounding them. Why don't you just play a main. A paladin of the Radiant heart then or silver rose. Put up or shut up.

Here you go buddy, strait from wikipedia and that "google search" I didn't do...

"This set features only a handful of the elements for which the game is known today: just three character classes (fighting-man, magic-user, and cleric); four races (human, dwarf, elf, hobbit); and only three alignments (lawful, neutral, and chaotic)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_ ... ons_(1974)

You have clearly demonstrated that you aren't willing to actually discuss anything nor are you receptive to help. You simply want what you want and you want people to agree with you, or that is what you have demonstrated. In addition to that, your facts are off-base and you aren't even willing to provide evidence as to why you hold them to be true; worse, when I pointed out one of your incorrect notions, you accuse me of being to lazy to look it up...

IF you don't want help, and aren't open to discussion that has a dissenting view, then this thread has reached it's conclusion, hasn't it?

[Aelcar]

Aelcar , everything you said pretty much validates what I said. If this, that, the other, thing and perfectly built a Paladin is marginally viable? Good point lad *sarcasim intended*. I can with the help of others build another character, but I'd rather be true to the Paladin genre RP wise since I have integrity. Take that as you will, IJS.

So...your arguments are ludicrous, therefore you give up and just attack me instead.

I like your style. You definitely have a future here.

This rant is going places.

IF you don't want help, and aren't open to discussion that has a dissenting view, then this thread has reached it's conclusion, hasn't it?

Ditto.

[AC81]

Paladins beat a few bosses easily, you're just not there yet. Take a Pally to Avernus also, they shine.
Also, who said they should be the best? A fully buffed weapon master will get dispelled because his caster level is zero, a paladin won't because they should have a full caster level! I think this is a learn-to-play issue on your part. Paladins are balanced for this server.

Or we could just get m3nt to post screenshots of his paladin killing bosses solo if you want?

Also, raiding parties ......

[Boddynock]

Also, raiding parties ......

Called it!

[Randomgamer]

As has been said numerous times, take another look and do your research... Paladin is not going to be as strong as a FS or Cleric or DC wizard (or any well built wizard) or dragon druid, but it is a very strong class that can solo MOST content if built well, warded up and possessing decent gear.

Or Bard, or weaponmaster or frenzied berserker, or any other class for the most part. I get your point and respect it, just hoping the powers that be realize that lawful good as strict as Rp as it is, needs love. It's far harder to play that then evil or chaotic yet we are for some reason gimped mechanically. My point stands true and whether people want to listen or not. So be it.

TnT. Trollish and toxic people. Last words.

[Kiran]

Could someone possibly send me a build to test out? I got decent ish gear and a 27 toon that I can rcr, never tried paladins in epics, so my experience of them being weak is mainly pre epic.

I have alright gear so not expecting a cake walk, but would love to test it out.

On a class without ECL if possible

[Boddynock]

It's far harder to play that then evil or chaotic yet we are for some reason gimped mechanically.

Another opinion that you will find hard to base in fact. Chaotic and evil toons on our server often have a much HARDER time role playing appropriately.

[Randomgamer]

It's far harder to play that then evil or chaotic yet we are for some reason gimped mechanically.

Another opinion that you will find hard to base in fact. Chaotic and evil toons on our server often have a much HARDER time role playing appropriately.

SHHH lad. Adults are speaking.

[lostinspace]

I'm new to BGTSCC, but I've played paladins on other NWN2 servers. It's a really good class, and probably one of my favorites.

Paladins can seem underwhelming to people who are new in playing them. This is mostly because it's really easy to make a bad paladin, through misallocation of stats or not taking the right feat prereqs for the more powerful divine feats down the road. They also have limited charges on most things, so their abilities need to be used judiciously.

But if you design and play a paladin decently well, you'll be able to go through content with or without a party. With a few clicks, you become a very tanky tank, or a damage-dealer doing damage that can't be resisted by most enemies. Or both simultaneously. Also, the saving throw boost means you're vulnerable to very few things. The only real chink in your armor in most instances is your touch AC.

RP-wise, it's a good class if you enjoy instigation and conflict roleplay. Being a paladin means you can't just let certain things slide for the sake of partying up to beat a boss. You have principles and you need to stick to them. For that reason, it's never going to be an extremely popular class.

[DM Ditto]

Locked.

Keep the personal attacks in your pants next time.