the fate of ATs

[Blame The Rogue]

after reading this thread>>>

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=54297

it got me thinking about characters using the build wiz/rog/sd/at and similar builds. seems a standard build. completely fits rp, and is something you would fully expect to see here

the problem is, with the dispel fixes, and 3 by xx rules, this isn't viable anymore

3 by 20 thread has got ppl thinkin, and that's good

but what to do with AT currently? add hips to it? are there any other solutions in the works? prcs meant to be used with "gish" builds should be altered to fit server changes

does anyone have any other ideas that may help AT and similar prcs?

i don't play one. haven't played an arcane in years. but i still feel their pain...occasionally. just occasionally

[Young Werther]

I like how it applies sneak attack to all the RTA spells.

Only suggestions I have is not playing solo and letting someone else eat the dispel or getting some kind of high DC control magic out to deal with casters first. Cast confusion cloud out of invis, hips, wait for spell to work?

[Blame The Rogue]

the issue is that the prc is not set up to succeed under current conditions

cl 29+ is required to work properly within current server framework

everyone should party to be more effective. but that's a bit different than party because your prc is broken

[Kauaiian]

I dont see it as an issue at all. Id say it's pretty adequate (and fitting) that only pure casters gain full CL. Gishes can't have it all

Maybe once archmage opens up to non casting classes that would help things quite a bit.

[Storm Munin]

wiz7 AT10 EK10 rogue3 (feinter cl30) amongst others are fun to play.


No problem detected, why change anything to accommodate a build that only were nondispellable because of a dispel bug?
Because there were a lot of fun builds beside the one the OP mentioned based on that bug that we should alter classes to accommodate if we change a single one of them.
HIPS builds or not.

it is totally possible to still have fun with the OP build, it will just be dispelled quite often in the epics.
As it should be.

IMHO

/M

[NegInfinity]

but what to do with AT currently?

Nothing.

AT works fine as it always did. As for dispell fix, that's the price you pay for getting both shadowdancer AND rogue levels.

Keep your character's strengths/weaknesses in mind and don't attack the wrong targets, pretty much.

cl 29+ is required to work properly within current server framework

It is not.

You should stop thinking about level 30s, you know.

There are people that are not at this level and will never be there. CL is certainly not required.

[Blame The Rogue]

agree with some of the points above

disagree with cl bit though. cant go around telling folks, you're good, but only at non-epic levels

why wouldn't an at want hips?

the function of the prc is to add sneaks to rtas. but how to do that and not be dispellable by every epic, and probably a lot of non-epic, mob casters?

[Young Werther]

why wouldn't an at want hips?

Using the RTA spells is quite easy to do. The enemy can be facing you and even charging you trying to reach you but if you cast before it closes you add the bonus. No need to break stealth to get the effect or even be flanking. Which makes party members blocking the monsters quite handy.

[Mallore]

Really the answer sounds like, bring friends.

stop soloing

problem fixed =P


there are a bunch of classes that cant solo, time to see more! =)

[NegInfinity]

agree with some of the points above

disagree with cl bit though. cant go around telling folks, you're good, but only at non-epic levels

I think it is silly, because you might not even reach epic levels.

Your CL does not determine how good your character is. AT can solo hill giants at level 12 and can be durable, standing ground unbuffed for a long time. Then again, it highly depends on your build and choice of abilities.

why wouldn't an at want hips?

Because that is not what the class is about. It is arcane prankster (alignment - non-lawful), pretty much. Hiding is for rangers(hunting), assassins (killing) and shadowdancers (because they mess with shadows too much)

Also, you need to adjust your strategy/gameplay style. If you have 7 non-casting levels, then obviously you don't want to heavily rely on buffs that can be easily dispelled. Besides, CL at level 30? At this point even frail wizard can defeat few dozen peasants in unarmed combat.

[Blame The Rogue]

to hide, and come out of hiding, to get sneak attack damage added to rtas

smells like shadow dancer and rogue to me

even in a party, tanks are not always able to keep agro. it's not about soloing. an at in the current setting, in a party, is going to be aggroed and dispeled

we'll agree to disagree about cls

edit: AT was created with the stock dispel rules in mind, and no 3 by rules. surely with new dispel rules in place, and 3 by rules, it warrants some type of positive change for the prc, and similar prcs?

[Young Werther]

Really the answer sounds like, bring friends.

stop soloing

r/wiz/at/thaumaturgist might be soloable. I've never tried it.

[Valefort]

AT was created by bioware and with the dispel as intended, ie like it is now, the dispel bug had not even been noticed.

the problem is, with the dispel fixes, and 3 by xx rules, this isn't viable anymore

I really question this ! A wiz/at/rogue can have CL 30, it all depends on the 4th class you pick, if you go SD you'll still be CL 28 and I doubt it's very dangerous.

For the record dispel doesn't do one roll for all the spells on you but one roll per spell.

General formula : 1d20 + 1 per caster level (to a maximum of +20) versus 11 + spell effect's caster level

Let's say the dispelling mob is CL 20+ (that's really not everywhere, I'd like people to provide examples of mobs with such CL), this becomes :

1d20 + 20 versus 11 +28 <=> 1d20 vs 19

10% chances of being dispelled, for one spell ! If your mage has the usual wards on him he has .. shield, mirror image, greater heroism, shadow shield, superior resistance ...

To be entirely dispelled of those spells only you need to be extremely unlucky : (10% )^5 = 0.001% aka never ever.

Even with CL 25 you're pretty fine, also btw counterspelling exist and can solve some of your issues here ! It's somewhat metagaming but you can just be ready to counterspell a greater dispel or a mordenkainen with your own mordenkainen or greater dispel.

[Steve]

Vale, have you used/tested Counterspelling?

[Valefort]

Long ago but I've seen it used convincgly against the frost giant king, is that difficult to use ? I honestly don't remember well.