Dispel vs Caster Level

[Akroma666]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Steve]

Well, to be fair, the scrolls shouldn't go higher than 29, but maybe 25 is decent enough?

And other cool and fun things COULD get added to help round out the edges: On Hit dispel weapons; Dead Magic Zones; longer Rest Timer, etc.

Honestly, if your build has HiPS, there is nothing to fret over!

And there are, supposedly, Areas to go to and avoid any casters (meta game that shit boyeee!)

As well: it seems if you are low CL, just start your attack with Counterspelling active, and you have a very decent chance of resisting the Dispel.

[Calodan]

Well, to be fair, the scrolls shouldn't go higher than 29, but maybe 25 is decent enough?

Actually yes it would be. Would allow only SOME regular monsters to use dispel and greater dispel on you and actually work and those uber casters can still get you and the PvP would still work for dispelling those F/FB/WMs too. I agree! Just saying a max of 15 CL on scrolls is not going to cut it at any epic level EVER. Just a waste of the skill and gold. Hell I would even say they can leave the dispel caps where they are if they just let us craft scrolls up to level 25 or so. Make sure those scrolls are never put IG into a shop either and if they are they should be 4x more expensive than what a player can craft them for. That way a player can always make money on doing a scroll writer or something. One thing that kills scroll sales person to person is the shops that have them at rates that are lower than the crafting cost.

////PS Can we submit a discussion for UMD getting a Take 20 when not in combat? Danged UMD is useless for real scroll usage until level 18 or higher since you fail the checks all too often thanks to a fubar rig on die rolls in NWN2......

[Touri]

Hello all,

it is okay that dispel magic now works as it should, means versus the caster lvl. Unfortunatly by the amount of enemy that uses it, hybrid class characters get dispelled all the time. I think it is no problem if your umd spells or potions get dispelled. But with 15cleric/12fighter/3rogue ((remember a Pala or Ranger normaly has lvl/2 = casterlvl, max caster LVL would be 15))a greater dispel magic with 1w20 +20 will dispel you easily. DC is 11+15= 26 =>26-20=6 vs 1d20 => You get dispelled 70%. 55% by a lvl3 dispel.

You only can buy the cloak of spell ressistance 32 to lower it a bit.
1d20 + 20 Caster lvl => 32-20=12 vs 1d20 => 40% you get 70% dispelled.

I know it was suggested to lower the amount of enemies that use dispel magic (It was done and it helped a bit, also f. e. Summoned creatures still dispell like Vampires in the Crypt in the FOD), but even if there are some they will get you sooner or later. Also It would be a lot of work to change all the area spawns.

If possible I would suggest two ways to make it at least playable for hybrid chars.

1. Lower the cap to lesser/normal/greater +5/+10/+15 or better +0/+5/10

2. Also okay would be if Dispel magic and greater dispel magic only dispel one spell each time and not all your spells. It does already if used as an area spell.

For a fairer pvp enviroment, means not only mages can dispell with breach and disjunction, I would sell or add to the loot table wands or better a slot item like a helmet or a cloak of mordekains 1 use per day and breaches 1 use per day. Magic users wouldn't be so overpowered anymore, but still powerfull enough if well played.

Since I play D&D I always was a fan of multiclass characters like Fighter/Magic-user/Rogue or Cleric/Ranger. But with the actual state of how dispel magic works, most players won't play them as it is a nightmare for hybrids.

Have fun all.

Kind regards

Touri

[NegInfinity]

Actually, if people are concerned with CLs of UMD, the better idea would be to allow making wands at specific CL, at higher price of course.

The cost of wand is CasterLevel * SpellLevel * 750 gp.

For example, Level 30 mirror image wand:
30 * 2 * 750 = 45000 gp.

And of course only CL30 mage will be able to make those.

[chad878262]

Hello all,

it is okay that dispel magic now works as it should, means versus the caster lvl. Unfortunatly by the amount of enemy that uses it, hybrid class characters get dispelled all the time. I think it is no problem if your umd spells or potions get dispelled. But with 15cleric/12fighter/3rogue ((remember a Pala or Ranger normaly has lvl/2 = casterlvl, max caster LVL would be 15))a greater dispel magic with 1w20 +20 will dispel you easily. DC is 11+15= 26 =>26-20=6 vs 1d20 => You get dispelled 70%. 55% by a lvl3 dispel.

You only can buy the cloak of spell ressistance 32 to lower it a bit.
1d20 + 20 Caster lvl => 32-20=12 vs 1d20 => 40% you get 70% dispelled.

I know it was suggested to lower the amount of enemies that use dispel magic (It was done and it helped a bit, also f. e. Summoned creatures still dispell like Vampires in the Crypt in the FOD), but even if there are some they will get you sooner or later. Also It would be a lot of work to change all the area spawns.

If possible I would suggest two ways to make it at least playable for hybrid chars.

1. Lower the cap to lesser/normal/greater +5/+10/+15 or better +0/+5/10

2. Also okay would be if Dispel magic and greater dispel magic only dispel one spell each time and not all your spells. It does already if used as an area spell.

For a fairer pvp enviroment, means not only mages can dispell with breach and disjunction, I would sell or add to the loot table wands or better a slot item like a helmet or a cloak of mordekains 1 use per day and breaches 1 use per day. Magic users wouldn't be so overpowered anymore, but still powerfull enough if well played.

Since I play D&D I always was a fan of multiclass characters like Fighter/Magic-user/Rogue or Cleric/Ranger. But with the actual state of how dispel magic works, most players won't play them as it is a nightmare for hybrids.

Have fun all.

Kind regards

Touri

Also a fan of hybrid characters (2nd ed. F/M/T FTW!!!) but lowering the dispel bonus caps just brings us back to the scenario previously discussed where we are empowering arcane/divine gish builds. I do like the idea of crafting higher CL wands/scrolls/potions as that creates additional in game economy between players and empowers UMD. I would also stipulate that higher CL items should require more UMD (so maybe instead of 11 a CL20 wand requires UMD 21 and a CL30 requires 31 for example). This would benefit builds that maximize UMD while not really benefitting those that cross-class UMD to end up at exactly 11 after CHA is considered.

[Theodore01]

quick question: are warlocks invocations like see invisible or leaps and bounds on the dispel list ?

[Calodan]

Also a fan of hybrid characters (2nd ed. F/M/T FTW!!!) but lowering the dispel bonus caps just brings us back to the scenario previously discussed where we are empowering arcane/divine gish builds. I do like the idea of crafting higher CL wands/scrolls/potions as that creates additional in game economy between players and empowers UMD. I would also stipulate that higher CL items should require more UMD (so maybe instead of 11 a CL20 wand requires UMD 21 and a CL30 requires 31 for example). This would benefit builds that maximize UMD while not really benefitting those that cross-class UMD to end up at exactly 11 after CHA is considered.

I think we are getting somewhere here.....I think there are two amounts you head for either 11 for wands only or you go up to 20 for all scrolls currently. I would be fine with making it so maxing out UMD is more awarded and can use the higher scrolls or Wands of 30CL or something. ALL FOR IT!!! Long as we can get a take 20 when not in combat on UMD.

[Kauaiian]

Hello all,

it is okay that dispel magic now works as it should, means versus the caster lvl. Unfortunatly by the amount of enemy that uses it, hybrid class characters get dispelled all the time. I think it is no problem if your umd spells or potions get dispelled. But with 15cleric/12fighter/3rogue ((remember a Pala or Ranger normaly has lvl/2 = casterlvl, max caster LVL would be 15))a greater dispel magic with 1w20 +20 will dispel you easily. DC is 11+15= 26 =>26-20=6 vs 1d20 => You get dispelled 70%. 55% by a lvl3 dispel.

You only can buy the cloak of spell ressistance 32 to lower it a bit.
1d20 + 20 Caster lvl => 32-20=12 vs 1d20 => 40% you get 70% dispelled.

I know it was suggested to lower the amount of enemies that use dispel magic (It was done and it helped a bit, also f. e. Summoned creatures still dispell like Vampires in the Crypt in the FOD), but even if there are some they will get you sooner or later. Also It would be a lot of work to change all the area spawns.

If possible I would suggest two ways to make it at least playable for hybrid chars.

1. Lower the cap to lesser/normal/greater +5/+10/+15 or better +0/+5/10

2. Also okay would be if Dispel magic and greater dispel magic only dispel one spell each time and not all your spells. It does already if used as an area spell.

For a fairer pvp enviroment, means not only mages can dispell with breach and disjunction, I would sell or add to the loot table wands or better a slot item like a helmet or a cloak of mordekains 1 use per day and breaches 1 use per day. Magic users wouldn't be so overpowered anymore, but still powerfull enough if well played.

Since I play D&D I always was a fan of multiclass characters like Fighter/Magic-user/Rogue or Cleric/Ranger. But with the actual state of how dispel magic works, most players won't play them as it is a nightmare for hybrids.

Have fun all.

Kind regards

Touri

Also a fan of hybrid characters (2nd ed. F/M/T FTW!!!) but lowering the dispel bonus caps just brings us back to the scenario previously discussed where we are empowering arcane/divine gish builds. I do like the idea of crafting higher CL wands/scrolls/potions as that creates additional in game economy between players and empowers UMD. I would also stipulate that higher CL items should require more UMD (so maybe instead of 11 a CL20 wand requires UMD 21 and a CL30 requires 31 for example). This would benefit builds that maximize UMD while not really benefitting those that cross-class UMD to end up at exactly 11 after CHA is considered.

Neg's idea is great!

[Darkcloud777]

I have lots of fun with my cl 28 AT. she ocaasionally gets dispelled but not often. When that happens I have backup wands.

[Seymor]

How are all of these supposed characters with low CL but HiPS getting dispelled? If you see an enemy cast dispel magic, can't you disengage and HiPS?

[chad878262]

How are all of these supposed characters with low CL but HiPS getting dispelled? If you see an enemy cast dispel magic, can't you disengage and HiPS?

Probably a scenario where they are already hiding, cast a spell which takes them out of hide mode, then get dispelled before the timer resets. However, IMO this is a case of not being cautious about your surroundings and picking targets carefully (which I suppose is good RP if WIS is your dump stat! )

[matelener]

If you're hipsing against bosses then they will often dispel you in the next round when you're out of the hiding. (Unless you time it so perfectly that they waste the dispel without the spell effect, which is rare)

Of course hipsing a dispel gives you a good indication when to prepare yourself to counterspell the boss. (Once counterspell is fixed)

[NeonAvenger]

... I do like the idea of crafting higher CL wands/scrolls/potions as that creates additional in game economy between players and empowers UMD ...

The following is a shameless promotion for Thunderkeg Supplies
Just mentioning it since no-one else has. CL 30 potions are already available in game in the form of elixirs from Master Alchemists. The prices end up a little... extreme and there is at least one spell that has a level cap but they're there.

[NegInfinity]

How are all of these supposed characters with low CL but HiPS getting dispelled? If you see an enemy cast dispel magic, can't you disengage and HiPS?

Unshelved my non-epic AT yesterday, plays fine as before, although killing things by running away from them eventually gets old, and said char definitely works much better as support or spy.

If CL is concern, I'd suggest to implement wands with custom CL. It'll be one heck of a money sink (cl 30 level 9 spell wand == 202500 gp), and will make better wizard crafters possible.

Potions are usable too, although wands would be a much better option