New Speartop mobs

[Valefort]

The remade speartop area is undeniably cool, however its monsters are too powerful :

Artic Troll (melee) : 33 AB
Mastiff (melee, sneak attack, KD) : 33 AB and coming out from stealth
Ice Ooze : high AB, RTA cold attack with DC 37 dealing 100 damage if you fail the save
Avalancher (huge spider, melee) : 33 AB, comes out from stealth with a paralyzing attack and has 25 DR
Artic spiriter troll : a bunch of epic spells, hellball, epic gate, vamp feast (and I think entropic husk too)

I suggest to lower the AB of all mobs by at least 4, to lower the DC on the RTA to 30 at least (which is already seriously high, I understand it was probably done to damage the evasion builds but think about the others) and the most important point : tweak the spellcaster seriously because he's crazy hard alone and can come with 3 trolls spamming knockdown on you.

As it is now it's too challenging, it requires powerbuilding and/or optimizing, which is not a good thing. I've yet to go there in a group but I imagine the spawns become more numerous and it can be rather nasty if a spellcaster is left unchecked

[Steve]

Doesn't Speartop offer some reward to equal the great challenge?

Is there reason to have Areas on the Server that provide a sense of limitation for Characters, seen IC, and through whatever tactics taken to survive the Area, it becomes an IC Feat of Accomplishment...something maybe a Bard may write a lyric and/or tune?

[Valefort]

Perhaps it does offer some reward but I've yet to find it as I didn't explore everything (there are caves in the mountain and it's cool).

Regarding your point about sense of limitation aren't there plenty of areas offering that ? For me the answer is already a clear yes and in my opinion people tend to powerbuild first then team second if that's still too hard (and some play alone for x/y/z reasons and cannot really team). Making such difficult mobs breeds powerbuilding further, I don't think the server needs that.

[Moltrazahn]

Sense of achievement?

"Oh boy! Another day on the sword coast where I'm alive! Sure glad I didn't go to any insanely overpowering monster area! I'd be dead 5 times over for no reward! Barkeep ! Another cheap affordable ale!- what's that you say? You got ale but I need an empty ale stein to put it in?! Alright.... best be heading to the ice dragon. I'm sure it has a high drop rate of an empty ale stein!"

I added motivation to why to go there now

[tfunke]

Yeah I made those spawns and upped the difficulty of the spawns in the area. Mainly because in the past, the only time PC's ever went to that area is to get to the dragon cave (with a large group), steamrolling the spawns on their way there.

I thought this would change that.. and then thought I'd make the area more desirable at the same time. Glad you like it.

[Valefort]

It's true that before people only went to this area to go to the white dragon and since they had to be powerful they steamrolled the CR 20 creatures that were there without blinking.

I hope there will be other feedback but I think you went too far on the other side, these mobs are very powerful and could use some tweaking.

[Steve]

Regarding your point about sense of limitation aren't there plenty of areas offering that ?

For Epic level Characters? Which ones are those?

[Calodan]

It is a video game. A place where we come to break our limitations. A place to get away from RL. This whole providing limitations and making a PC MORE HUMAN THAN HUMAN is stupid to me. Flat out. I want to break those limitations. The ideals of RL Physics should not apply here. However for some reason a small minority that controls this server seems to think this is a good idea. It is not. People play video games to get away from normal. Not to find it more controlling than life itself. For goodness sakes there are dragons in this realm. Many gods. Gryphons, wyverns. THE DEAD WALK......I mean really? Think about it. A PC does not need a limitation when just looting or adventuring normally. That is what DM EVENTS ARE FOR! When you create areas like this that limit us as PCs we build to beat that area consistently then we all have UBER PCs that the DMS need to balance for...See where this is going? An easier realm means DMs do not have to over power their mobs because more people will use flavor RP builds since those builds are viable in all areas of the server. However when you make areas that only divine PBs can go to well.........

[Valefort]

Regarding your point about sense of limitation aren't there plenty of areas offering that ?

For Epic level Characters? Which ones are those?

Well ... just speaking from my limited experience since I only played Mealir

1. white dragon
2. Darkhold ascent
3. Gray peaks and Balor
4. Vault of the dead
5. Netherese maze
6. Chaos

All of those are on the impossible list for him, except of course spending a ton of consumables, which helps up to a certain limit (I managed to kill the Balor with Mealir solo but it cost me more than 50k gold ).

Now I can add speartop on that already fairly long list.

[Steve]

[ Edited for forum rules #2, 3, and 5. ]

[chad878262]

Rather than being dismissive of anything, I think it would be helpful to tfunke if others chimed in that have been to the area.

Valefort, I do think there is more of a direction the area builders have been going to further encourage going places in groups, as opposed to solo. There are area's of the server that can be solo'd depending on build from levels 1-30 so I don't think it is bad if this area is challenging/impossible solo. That said, I think it would be good information if a group were to go to Speartop and report back here in regards to if the area is IMPOSSBILE for a group of 3-5 players or if it is challenging. I don't think it is good for folks to not even be able to reach the White Dragon, or to require draining so many resources that they can't hop to take the WD on and have a shot at winning. However, if it is only a challenge and doesn't require 3-5 Powerbuilds to even have a chance then I think it is ok...

EDIT: Why should all areas be easy for a solo character? I suppose the Area Builders could just make more areas like the stone giant fortress where you literally CAN'T get in solo, but in some cases they just make things hard enough that generally speaking it requires a group for survival. nothing wrong with that... It's not about making people avoid areas so much as providing areas where folks can form a party (you know, like in D&D) and still have a challenge. Generally, area's that are soloable, while perhaps ok for grinding xp, do not provide a group challenge for adventure RP. If a dungeon requires a group of appropriate level PC's (non-power builds) to take it slow, fight with tactics, fall back and regroup once in a while, I think that is really cool. Again, if it is a death sentence unless you are 5 level 30 PB's then it should be toned down. ///EDIT

AB33 seems really high, since very few builds can reach 50 AC... 33 AB attacking out of stealth is pretty insane. So off the top of my head I am going to guess the area could use a bit of tweaking.

[Valefort]

Yeah more feedback would help, it's definitely not impossible just quite hard, too hard maybe but perhaps my view of the situation is skewed, go explore that area it's worth it anyway

[Akroma666]

Friendly reminder to play nice kids. Let's take a deep breath and think before we post.

[Snarfy]

Unsolicited or no( ), Calodan makes a valid point:

An easier realm means DMs do not have to over power their mobs because more people will use flavor RP builds since those builds are viable in all areas of the server.

It's just simple math: more powerful content = more powerbuilding. And the uber-tough mobs here probably have a great effect on the player standards for accomodating for power in character concepts, as well as the DM standards for the kind of creatures they can/will spawn in events.

The content here is not designed for RP builds, period. And if your Rp/flavor concept is getting creamed... well, "too bad, find a group" is what you'll get when you speak up(because RP'ers love to join random groups with munchkin'ing power-zergs).

As it is now it's too challenging, it requires powerbuilding and/or optimizing, which is not a good thing.

Hi also Vale!! That sounds like a spiffy area you found... and by that I mean ouch ouch ouch By the sounds of it, none of my 4 non-optimized epic toons would last 10 seconds there. Oh well, I suppose I'll just add that to the list of areas I never visit! (you need to add Avernus, and that gods-awful cave up north with the greater invisible stalkers to your list, btw)

Welcome back... or something!

[Aelcar]

Yeah more feedback would help, it's definitely not impossible just quite hard, too hard maybe but perhaps my view of the situation is skewed, go explore that area it's worth it anyway

Those numbers are pretty high. However, the problem isn't the AB (which is very high) of those mobs, nor the Epic Spells (aside from Vampiric Feast, which needs to be dodged at all costs)...Hellball can actually help you kill them, since if you mantle, and run to the caster, the only ones dying will be him and his friends. Even the 37 DC 100+ cold dmg can be handled.

The HUGE issue is the KD/paralysis spam in this environment. Such an amount of CC with the numbers above makes a regular PC's life a matter of RNG: if they chain CC on you, and the RNG decides it works, there is nothing you can do but wait to die (well...or log off before that happens, if you call that acceptable).

Such lack of counterplay should always be avoided, imho. Everywhere.