Change: Great Drow Gish Builds

[Kauaiian]

Greetings everyone,

I have a friend interested in playing here. She wants to play in the UD, and wants to RP a svirfneblin. Can anyone recommend any easy/survivable svirf builds for the UD? She likes party play and RP, but does not want to be a hindrance when in a party either. She doesn't like PvP but would like a fighting chance if faced with it.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I explained to her the difference between Sshamath and traditional drow cities. And while she's ruling a pure caster out, she wouldnt say no immediately to a gish.

[chad878262]

they can make very good sacred fists (or monks in general). +2 DEX/+2 WIS is almost made for a Monk/Cle/SF/Hierophant... However, if she doesn't want that, you could also look at Monk25/SD5. Finally, since Favored Class is Rogue, you could go with a Monk11/R10/A9 or Monk11/R13/WD3/SD3 if you want limited / no casting stealth / sneak attack builds.

The neat thing is with +2 DEX / +2 WIS you can qualify for SD (19 DEX and still get pretty darn high WIS, so if you want, you can still be a 'fist' monk with intuitive strike / blazing aura. You might have to min max a little, but not very much. Just start with 18 DEX/18 WIS, and make DEX 19 at level 4 and put the rest in WIS. Might need a couple epic feats, but for a M25/SD5 to also have blazing aura would give some pretty nice damage potential.

If you min/max all the way it might even be possible to have epic dodge AND blazing aura, though I am not certain as I never tried to build that on a svirf. I recall trying it with another race and not quite being able to do it, but with a min/max svirf it may be possible (though I would hate to see the rest of the stats!)

[Thorsson]

M11/Ro16/SD3 is probably better than spending 3 levels on WD (extra SA plus extra Epic Feat is better than the WD freebies IMO). The issue with M11/Ro10/Asn9 is that you can't get both Epic Dodge and Precision. M9/Ro13/Asn8 gets you both those but loses Greater Flurry, so probably M/Ro/SD is better than that as well.

[chad878262]

WD was because you already qualify for it with feats required for SD and gets you free SF: Hide and MS... detection can be very difficult for a new player of a stealth build and IMO +3 hide/ms is worth an epic feat if you are a new player with no epic/grandfathered/uber stealth gear because it allows you to sacrifices some stealth gear to wear AC gear.

Thorsson's build without WD is definitely better mechanically because of the additional epic feat and +1 SA dice. However, a sneak is NOTHING if it can't sneak, so getting more hide/ms is always my top priority. Cannot have too high hide/ms.

[Kauaiian]

Thanks both! Any recommended arcane gish or druid builds by chance?

[Eclypticon]

In all honesty, a dragon shape druid shifter if probably one of the top 3 most survivable builds you can pull off.

Go with extend spell, natural spell, maximize spell, epic animal companion, magic beast shape, dragon shape, and dragon companion. Wis 27ish.

[Thorsson]

The only problem is that you get none of your Racial advantages in Dragon Shape - but then you hardly need them!

[Rudolph]

Apart from the xp penalty, this Breach Monk might do a good job as well. It uses the four Combat Focus feats, but if your friend doesn't like those, she could replace them with, say, Steadfast, Greater Resiliency, Flensing Strike, and a Great DEX point.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?244459

A gish is somewhat add odds with the ability bonuses of the deep gnome, but the below might still work well. I made it as a Rock Gnome originally.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?252857

[Kauaiian]

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

BUT, the plot thickens...dun dun dun.

With the dispel fix in, can anyone recommend any great drow arcane gish builds?

[Eclypticon]

Wizard 10 Eldritch Knight 10 Thurmaturgist 3 Dragon Slayer 7.

[chad878262]

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

BUT, the plot thickens...dun dun dun.

With the dispel fix in, can anyone recommend any great drow arcane gish builds?

The build I sent you works better for a Drow.

W13/DS7/EK10... BAB 23, CL30. You want 16 INT, 13 DEX, 11 CON, MAX STR. WIS and CHA are dump stats that you only put points in for RP reasons. Same feedback I gave you in the PM, but let me know if you have any other questions. Just remember that a gish can get more BAB and shouldn't have issues there, but damage is tough to come by so you want PA at a minimum and IPA will really help. However, if you want to go the Combat Insight route just put STR at 14 and Max INT. You can't really go the Swashbuckler route because it requires 5 levels and ruins your caster level, but you can still do it.

[Rudolph]

I don't quite know whether sorcerers count as gishes. If so, this one might be an option:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?252914

[chad878262]

I don't quite know whether sorcerers count as gishes. If so, this one might be an option:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?252914

Sorcs can be gishes, but I don't know that this is a good one...

S7/EK10/BG3/BM10 = BAB 21, CL29 (-3 BG -1 EK -1 BM) unless using the bloodseeking spell to increase CL by 2. In addition you need to take toughness, which also allows steadfast, but I am not really sure it's worth it. You get +2 CON which is nice as well, but I think DS gives more overall for a gish.

[Rudolph]

Sorcs can be gishes, but I don't know that this is a good one...

S7/EK10/BG3/BM10 = BAB 21, CL29 (-3 BG -1 EK -1 BM) unless using the bloodseeking spell to increase CL by 2. In addition you need to take toughness, which also allows steadfast, but I am not really sure it's worth it. You get +2 CON which is nice as well, but I think DS gives more overall for a gish.

Mmh. I was told on the forum that Blood Component contributes to the CLs, so the build should have CL 30 even without bloodseeking. I thought that Toughness and +2 CON were useful feats for a gish (with lowish AC) and also like the scar spell option as it allows for casting during Tenser.

I was also thinking of proposing the following 30 CL STR gish which makes use of DS, but desisted because it works better with Earth Genasi than Drow... http://nwn2db.com/build/?245407

[chad878262]

Well you're correct in a sense, but I would disagree that arcane gishes have lowish A.C. +6.armor, +4 shield, +5 natural from spells means they only need dodge and deflection from items. They also can run around with basically permanent 20% concealment and 50% when needed...and damage resistance, immunity to all elements at need, etc. Toughness is useful only because you can take steadfast which is very nice, but in most cases the arcane should be able to protect itself from whatever requires a saving throw without resorting to the possibility of rolling a 1. Shadow shield protects from death spells, mind blank from mind effects, true seeing from illusions (I think). So steadfast isn't nearly as important as it would be for other builds.

Overall the build isn't bad as it does have synergy with BG saves and reaches 5 attacks / round, and I like the thought of using draught/scarification as emergency backups, but I think I'd rather have a bit more AB in order to use IPA since arcane gishes don't have a reliable damage buff. I compare it do STR bard vs EDM bard. EDM bard (and your build) get limited uses of doing more damage, but the STR version will always hit more often and does more damage except where edm is used.