Archmage Question

[CleverUsername123]

I have a question about the Archmage PrC.

When it talks about sacrificing spell slots, is that a permanent loss of spell slots?

[chad878262]

I believe it occurs each rest, and if you don't sacrifice the spell slot you can't use the ability. In theory it is a permanent loss in the sense that the ability won't work if you don't have a spell to sacrifice after rest. I have not actually played or tested Archmage builds so I don't know exactly how the mechanic works in practice though.

[Planehopper]

Edited: read Steve's reply below.

If that has changed I am sure I will be corrected.

Told ya.

[CleverUsername123]

Alright, thanks

[Steve]

WARNING/NOTE:High Arcana feats cost spellslots to use! Spellslots are memorized / known spells and are sacrificed alphabetically. Metamagic prepared spells are not checked. Not sacrificing a spell slot for an ability incurs a one time 5 casterlevels and 2 DC penalty. Make sure you memorize a non-metamagic spell to lose at the levels you incur a spell slot loss.

It is that the first memorized spell IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER in each sacrificed Spell Level, that is lost. This means little for Sorcerers, but for Wizards, it means to always memorize 2 of the highest alphabetical spell in your book (current).

[Planehopper]

Thanks Steve! I guess I should shut my pie hole unless I am sure.

[Hawke]

It is that the first memorized spell IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER in each sacrificed Spell Level, that is lost.

This.

And it cannot be a metamagic spell either, so no extended spell or whatever.

It's an expensive trade off when compared to it's divine equivalent.

So every time you rest, the class eats all of the spells it needs to feed your Arcana choices. So if you are a level 10 archmage, you are losing 5 spells, every time you rest.

[CleverUsername123]

Is it worth it? It seems great but I don't know how good the Arcana is compared to what it loses,

[chad878262]

As with anything it depends on your build plan. A DC Caster can get an extra DC on all schools of magic and be more difficult to be dispelled by Mords by up to 15% with Spellpower III. Mords calculation for dispel is the same as any other, but with no level cap, so a CL30 hitting another CL30 with mords has a 50% chance of success against each ward. At CL33 that same dispeller has a 35% chance against each ward.

Likewise, if you are building an evocation specialist (especially as a sorcerer!) being able to change the elemental energy of your spells, and being able to make your spells party friendly can be fantastic during battle.

"Is it worth it?" is always difficult to provide a straight answer for. If your building with a specific goal in mind it can very much be worth it. However, if you aren't using Archmage to maximize your capabilities in a certain area than I'd say you aren't really using it right, and it won't necessarily be effective. It can improve your DC's, make you less dispellable even against mords (though there is no protection against breach) and make you better at controlling your spells and if you have certain types of builds it is a very good choice. However, it is not always the best choice.

[CleverUsername123]

Can anyone recommend a good Wizard (not sorceror) Archmage build?
If so, please no Pale Master, Blood Mage, or Frost Mage.

[Eclypticon]

I'd go for the arcane scholar AM approach.

[chad878262]

Arcane Scholar is better for a Sorceror / AM, but still works with Wizard. However, you should consider just going W/AM... going this route could get you 3 extra epic feats (+1 DC plus an epic spell or epic spell focus) with CL 32 from two spell powers or other options as well. Sorcerers (in my opinion) are much better "blasters" while Wizards (again, my opinion) are much better for DC focused builds. This is due to bonus feats for wizards allowing for extra DC's over what a sorc can get.

Another option for your wizard/archmage is to add Eldritch Knight and/or Dragon Slayer (if AM gets opened up in game so such can be done). It will require careful leveling, but I imagine you could go W7/EK10/DS9/AM4 with Spell Power II for CL31 and BAB 24, or you could take Spell Power I and another ability of your choice for CL30 (31 just gives you a 5% extra chance to avoid mords dispelling your wards). Going this route you can either max STR and pick up PA/IPA to address the biggest issue Gishes have IMO which is consistent damage, or you can go the INT route and go for Combat Insight, though you will still want some STR so you can still wear heavy armor.

[lilani]

Wiz 10, AM10, RW10

This gives you CL 38, only a 10% to lose buffs to a lvl 30caster and a 90% chance to dispel a lvl 30 caster.

With a starting 18 int & 3 int feats + AM spell power 3, you'll have approx 41DC on your school of choice and *42 to overcome SR checks

While you sacrifice some spell slots, remember you can take an AM spell like ability that gives you 2x lvl 9 spells/day which quickly recovers the lost spell levels so long as it is a spell you use a lot (wail, wired etc)

[Aelcar]

Wiz 10, AM10, RW10

This gives you CL 38, only a 10% to lose buffs to a lvl 30caster and a 90% chance to dispel a lvl 30 caster.

With a starting 18 int & 3 int feats + AM spell power 3, you'll have approx 41DC on your school of choice and *42 to overcome SR checks

While you sacrifice some spell slots, remember you can take an AM spell like ability that gives you 2x lvl 9 spells/day which quickly recovers the lost spell levels so long as it is a spell you use a lot (wail, wired etc)

While being a relatively good build and character type, I would not recommend this to someone who isn't a specialist, long-time Wizard player.

This character is a complete glass cannon, and an unexpected breach or disjunction coming from nowhere will basically kill you on the spot.

Mixing Archmage and Red Wizard is a recipe for feat starvation, as a rule: if a fragile, low hp, low saves, no defenses glass cannon Wizard is what you're after (if you have a friend playing Thayan Knight as his main character, for instance), then by all means, go for it.

But keep in mind that a second or two of lag will kill you most of the times, just like an enemy you did not expect, or a dispel you didn't see coming, or a slight mistake in positioning...or a gentle breeze, really.

[lilani]

I agree pure arcane casters require a different play style but played correctly they are a force to be reckoned with.

The feat cost isn't as intensive as it sounds. it costs 6 feats (though 1 is a metamagic feat which all pure casters will take and spell focus is another, which al pure casters should be taking), Additionally, you get 4 free feats from wiz & RW levels, so even with SCP you still have a lot of feats spare to take plenty of metamagic / epic spells (even more int), if you plan properly.

Any caster build is vulnerable to breaches & mords but the above is less affected as it's practically immune to the dispel element of mords meaning the only spells that put you at risk are breaches (which all casters are vulnerable too).

Obviously gishing is going to make you more survivable to a mords though i don't think AM makes a good class combo for this kind be of build as you'll certainly begin to feel a shortage of feats when you start to look at extra combat feats that will make you moree than a wet lettuce when it comes to melee.