the no-magic club

[Zanniej]

So, in my years here I've noticed a trend in building. If you don't have any way of accessing magic, you're out!

I want to prove that you don't need buffs or reliance on magic to have fun here. As such, I want to challenge you all. Create a toon that does not rely on the casting of spells at all! This can be anything, as long as it can't cast spells. Not through UMD, no warlock, arcane magic or divine magic, nothing.

I'm doing this myself with a toon which is a sub-par swashbuckler build. (it's not even really a build ... )

Who is up for the challenge!?
Might as well make use of the arena for this while we're at it! Have a little no-magic tournament, if there are enough people joining (not sure about what to do with HIPS though).

[Theodore01]

Sign me in

Would love to start a new non-magical, non hipsing and non-muling group from the scratch and see how (far) it goes.

[Zanniej]

I'm completely down with that! Though I'm not sure I've got time for two groups
But we'll see. If we've got more interest in it then I'll see if I can make it fit!

[Wyatt]

I do this with all of my characters. My current character, Jarrol Ironhead, is a low charisma dwarven barbarian/battlerager that has -4 UMD skill and no access to magic whatsoever.

[High Priestess]

If I only won't kill anyone with my broke english and long emotes, could join!

[Steve]

Buffs and UMD/magic is really only needed for Bosses and PvP.

[Grism]

Sign me in

Would love to start a new non-magical, non hipsing and non-muling group from the scratch and see how (far) it goes.

Forgive my newbishness but what is hipsing?

[Zanniej]

Sign me in

Would love to start a new non-magical, non hipsing and non-muling group from the scratch and see how (far) it goes.

Forgive my newbishness but what is hipsing?

It stands for Hide In Plain Sight and is the bread and butter of rogues. Without it, most rogues or sneak attack-minded toons would be pretty lost

[Grism]

I see. Thank you. That makes sense now.

[NegInfinity]

So, in my years here I've noticed a trend in building. If you don't have any way of accessing magic, you're out!

I want to prove that you don't need buffs or reliance on magic to have fun here. As such, I want to challenge you all. Create a toon that does not rely on the casting of spells at all! This can be anything, as long as it can't cast spells. Not through UMD, no warlock, arcane magic or divine magic, nothing.

I'm doing this myself with a toon which is a sub-par swashbuckler build. (it's not even really a build ... )

Who is up for the challenge!?
Might as well make use of the arena for this while we're at it! Have a little no-magic tournament, if there are enough people joining (not sure about what to do with HIPS though).

I have at least two (active) completely non-magical characters. One Hipsing and one isn't (and with a ridiculous build that turned out to be fairly strong). Basically, I'm not a fan of D&D magical system and prefer either dealing with warlocks or having no magic on character at all.

Another reason is the rest timer.

[Ambaryerno]

Sign me in

Would love to start a new non-magical, non hipsing and non-muling group from the scratch and see how (far) it goes.

Forgive my newbishness but what is hipsing?

It stands for Hide In Plain Sight and is the bread and butter of rogues. Without it, most rogues or sneak attack-minded toons would be pretty lost

Have they actually fixed it so it's not broken the OTHER way?

IIRC, according to PnP Rogue/Assassin should only be capable of HiPSing in urban environments (IE blending into a crowd) while Rangers can HiPS in the wilderness. IIRC SD HiPS requires shadows. At least when I played here before (c.2010-2012), Ranger HiPS just plain didn't work at all, while the others could HiPS anywhere.

It was also RIDICULOUSLY easy to exploit because of how the game mechanics handled it (IE possible to break out of combat mode with the WASD keys and HiPS despite the fact you were CURRENTLY BEING SMACKED WITH A SWORD).

[Aelcar]

So, in my years here I've noticed a trend in building. If you don't have any way of accessing magic, you're out!

I want to prove that you don't need buffs or reliance on magic to have fun here. As such, I want to challenge you all. Create a toon that does not rely on the casting of spells at all! This can be anything, as long as it can't cast spells. Not through UMD, no warlock, arcane magic or divine magic, nothing.

Ok. I'll leave the Swashbuckler to you, then:

- Dwarf Fighter 12/Dwarven Defender 10/Anointed Knight 8 (you can add WD or Rogue, if you want EW)

- Moon Elf Monk 25/SD5

- Aasimar Monk 30

- Tiefling Rogue 16/Monk 11/SD 3

- Drow Fighter 14/WM 7/WD 4/FB 5

- Human Barbarian (any build, given the new buffs to the class: even Brb 20/ F 10 or Brb 25/FB 5 will do)

- Air Genasi Fighter 12/ Devish 10/ WM 5/SD 3


Several of these are top-tier solo builds (like the DD or the Monks), others top-tier party builds (any WM/FBs). The Barbarian is downright scary as well, after the changes.

Most of the players "cast" simply because most of the classes and PrCs do.

[Archaos]

Have they actually fixed it so it's not broken the OTHER way?

IIRC, according to PnP Rogue/Assassin should only be capable of HiPSing in urban environments (IE blending into a crowd) while Rangers can HiPS in the wilderness.

That's actually wrong. From the DMG p.181:

"Hide in Plain Sight (Su):
At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow."

While in the Player's Handbook, it makes it clear for Rangers:

"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):
While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed."

That means that the Ranger can hide even in a cave, not necessarily in the wilderness.

[Ambaryerno]

Have they actually fixed it so it's not broken the OTHER way?

IIRC, according to PnP Rogue/Assassin should only be capable of HiPSing in urban environments (IE blending into a crowd) while Rangers can HiPS in the wilderness.

That's actually wrong. From the DMG p.181:

"Hide in Plain Sight (Su):
At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow."

While in the Player's Handbook, it makes it clear for Rangers:

"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):
While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed."

That means that the Ranger can hide even in a cave, not necessarily in the wilderness.

Regardless, the point was that Vanilla HiPS (which the server used to have) ws seriously broken with Rangers not able to HiPS at all, and the other class able to HiPS even when it shouldn't be possible. I know there's fixes/workarounds for some of the issues (IIRC, the exploit enabling HiPS in combat is hard-coded in the mechanics and can't be fixed) since then, but I've no idea if they've been implemented.

[AC81]

F14/WM7/FB5/WD4 - just swallow your pride and use a shield. Still crits OFTEN for 100-110. Or lower the crit damage and increase AC by turned IPA off and turning ICE on.

Or Dwarven Defender

Or Wisdom Monk

Or any HiPS character

Or ....