Faction Stipend System

[Aspect of Sorrow]

I've considered the fact that there might be guild leaders who try to make all of their members the same rank to earn maximum pay, but I think that's easily thwarted with a few checks and balances.

Simply put, abuse of the system can be caught.

Can mechanically limit the position scopes.

[Tsidkenu]

And to reiterate the OP, this is not gold that is awarded for OOC 'off-screen' activity, even though that is what it is representing ICly. You'll still need to log game time to actually receive the stipend every week. No time in game = no stipend. In other words, I won't be getting any

[Valefort]

And then when something bad happens to the faction's assets there is an automagic tax on each PC belonging to it, relative to the cost of the disaster

[Akroma666]

I am against anything that auto generates gold, we just got away from gold being useless.. let's not go back.

[7threalm]

agreed and it just make more ooc guild drama

[V'rass]

Gold is still largely useless... barter remains the most effective means of obtaining high end gear. Also i approve this suggestion, one does not work for nothing... unless they are slaves.

[BigJ]

I'm not for / against this idea as yet, but I did want to point out the following:

In our setting some guilds you pay into, you do not get paid.

Schools of Sshamath - You have to pay school fees, they do not pay you. Same for most Drow houses, you do not get paid.

Thieves Guild - You do not get paid working for a thieves guild, instead you pay a cut of the jobs you pull/fenced items into the guild.

Religion / Churches - Eg. Ilmater, priests are expected to collect alms and pay into the church, not get paid by the church.

Monk Orders - You typically do not get paid for being at a monastery or part of a monk order.

Those are just some examples, it makes it difficult to see how this idea can be implemented whilst being fair to all and true to the setting.

BigJ

[JCVD1]

I'm not for / against this idea as yet, but I did want to point out the following:

In our setting some guilds you pay into, you do not get paid.

Schools of Sshamath - You have to pay school fees, they do not pay you. Same for most Drow houses, you do not get paid.

Thieves Guild - You do not get paid working for a thieves guild, instead you pay a cut of the jobs you pull/fenced items into the guild.

Religion / Churches - Eg. Ilmater, priests are expected to collect alms and pay into the church, not get paid by the church.

Monk Orders - You typically do not get paid for being at a monastery or part of a monk order.

Those are just some examples, it makes it difficult to see how this idea can be implemented whilst being fair to all and true to the setting.

BigJ

That logic is flawed horribly.

Not all guilds are the same, have the same purpose or works towards the same goal.

The Thayans are merchants. They provide merchandise, diplomatic missions and are employed by their governments.

Guild Thieves are not slaves to the guild. Thieves are thieves to fill their own pockets for they own gain. If they get nothing out of being in the Guild other than a guildhall, they can just rent a cheap room and get richer by themselves.

Churches hire helpers, granted that most are devout and do so freely.

SCCE is a bank. Name a bank that works for free. xD

Ebon Blades defend a settlement and get the privilege to do it for free? My my! What a deal!

[Ariella]

Also! Most temples turn over a portion of their funds back to the clergy that work for the temple, Cost of casting components and various other clerical duties as well as cost of living expenses.

[Blackman D]

well the part about the thieves guild is actually true, at least when my hin was still in it

you got paid on commission but you still had to turn over a cut to the guild, the guild itself didnt pay you anything but it did provide things, it of course is hard to actually regulate but that is the way it was suppose to work

[Velaris]

An auto-generated stipend takes away from the opportunity for good RP and player responsibility.

You started a guild? Great. Pay your members, but out of your pocket. Established guilds and group from lore shouldn't be tapped for gold just because you got the idea of representing them here.

Thayans are merchants true, and make their money from selling goods etc yes. I agree with that part, but saying that you get paid by a lore based group you have no actual contact with is unreasonable. It just looks like money grabbing.

Thieves pay to be a part of a guild, for protection, (both from outside sources, and for being allowed to thieve within the guilds territory). The guild provides contracts, equipment, and access to safe houses where you can lay low. That's lore. Saying a thief can go his own way and make a better living, it's more likely to be a short living.

Not here to argue the finer points though. There are some good points being made I think.

Mercenary group members get paid by whomever runs the group. If there is a big contract, in the case of ebon blades protecting a territory, there needs to be someone who is paying them. I actually agree with that, since they are an independent group, but who pays? You are also then accountable to said person. ie Duke Eltan and the Fist
However, if you lead an independent group, when there's no contract, you pay your mercs from your own pocket, and can direct them where you wish.

In many lore based guilds, in fact I would say the majority, people join to have access to better facilities, equipment, laboratories, etc. They also join for the status of the association with that guild or organization.

A Thayan Red wizard is just a guy in a red robe that casts spells without the name of his organization behind him. No authority, no guildhall to hold meetings in. Not so impressive, and few people will take you seriously. The same can be said for most independent wizards, unless they've gone out and made a name for themselves.

The point being, the acclaim, of association is a method by which the majority of players associated with guilds are being paid already. More than that sounds like lazy greed at worst, and entitlement.

" i get paid every time i say brought to you by Carl's Jr"

[metaquad4]

I'm not usually for systems that automate RP, but in this case, it automates grinding. Which, is a very good thing. As others mentioned, it allows for less time to be spent grinding to pay underlings and more time RPing with them.

I suppose the RP for payments could still happen, too. A guild leader could say, for example.

"Go visit our quartermaster for your "x time" stipend." (you could even justify the stipend as food, repairs to weapons/armor, materials, etc. depending on the nature of the guild.)

rather than

"Here is your stipend for your "x time" of service."

as it is now.

I'd say I'm all for it. Its a pretty good idea. Often times, I find that I use a fair bit of gold in RP. Paying players for services, paying for RP items (food, charge use items), etc. I don't grind, so gold tends to vanish fairly rapidly. I think nearly any guild could justify this system (cost of living, off-screen guild work, forum work, etc), and it would be an asset for people who don't grind.

I suppose the only concern would be people who spend the money and time to make a guild, then bump up all their members to the highest tier and stop doing anything in the guild. Though, this can be addressed in a few ways:

a) You could argue its irrelevant. DMs usually look out for inactive guilds, especially ones that have halls. Also, guild halls take a lot of time, RP, and gold to acquire. Most people who are the types to "cheese" the system aren't the types to do all the work involved.

b) Have DM events related to the guild add into the stipend system as a form of reward. For example, after a guild has a DM event, the DMs could "flag" all the characters in the guild involved in the event for a "token" that grants them an extra stipend (in the form of gold, the character's choice of item from the guild NPC, etc.). This also allows for DMs to make it easier to give character's rewards, since they don't have to distribute it randomly.

Characters could choose a reward based on what suits them. DMs could even have multiple tiers of reward, such as a gold reward, a minor item reward (+3 items), a normal item reward (+3 items with exotic stats), an epic item reward (+4 items with exotic stats). Of course, DMs could still award stuff the current way, or they could opt to use this system. Each type of token could trigger a special merchant dialogue with the guild stipend NPC, where the kind of item(s) correlating to the token is displayed.

This would create a streamlined reward system for events, giving more potential to this stipend system. And, of course, it would encourage guild activity.

Between encouraging activity by rewarding it, and monitoring for inactive guilds, I think the system would be reasonably "uncheesable".

Its a good idea, with a great amount of potential to it, that would help the server. I'd say, go for it.

[BigJ]

That logic is flawed horribly.

Not all guilds are the same, have the same purpose or works towards the same goal.

My logic is so horribly flawed and yet you prove it for me JVCD, indeed not all guilds are the same so not all guilds pay their members, some have to pay into the guild.

I never mentioned Thayans, SCCE or ebon, others have confirmed my statement about the thieves guild and you didn't directly counter my logic re the Schools and monks, and confirmed my logic about churches.

So my point is made, the logic is sound.

Either this faction stipend system has to be an OOC system, or somehow put aside the setting / lore to make payments to all guilds/players. It has to be available to all players, not just those in guilds that in lore do pay their members otherwise it simply isn't fair.

BigJ

[Hawke]

The conversation is a good one. Let's keep the tone even, I don't want to take action.

[Atlas]

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