Barbarian Dwarven Slayer

[Hendrak]

Hi,

i am trying some new builds. This time i am aiming for a dwarven Slayer.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?256585

Do you have some optimization ideas for me? I know he is kind of a late bloomer.

What can i take instead of Fast Healing I ? Does Armor Skin stack with Ice Troll Berzerker.

Thanks in advance.

[Valefort]

Armor skin stacks with everything but I would keep fast healing.

This seems like a tough nut to crack but the damage seems quite low at first glance. No power attack, just weapon and STR mod will land you at :

1d6 (base weapon damage) +4 (EB) + 7 (STR) = 13.5 damage .. 16.5 if two handing, 18.5 when epic raging, 25.5 while two handing and raging.

Consider dropping CE, ICE, greater resiliency for power attack and two extend rage feats because AC wise you are at :

10 (base) + 3 (tumble) + 2 (barb AC) +1 (LoH) + 8 (armor) + 2 (DEX bonus) + 4(enchant) + 4 (deflection ) + 4 (dodge boots) + 4 (natural armor) = 42 without raging or shield

Take a +4 heavy shield and you're sitting at a very comfortable 48 AC.
Raging you get +8 natural armor and +5 dodge AC for 51 AC (without shield), which is excellent.

So .. no need for CE and ICE but include some more damage with PA as well as longer lasting rages.

[Theodore01]

Yeah, what Vale said.

Greater resiliency is still at +1 damage reduction - barely worth a feat.

And why are you taking CE+ICE ? A raging barb. has good AC.
37 AB isn't much, so you cannot afford to use CE+ICE without raging.

What he lacks is damage output overall. Barely a slayer. He hits more like a wimpy hin.

Take a weaponfocus and PA.
Drop some INT for STR or CON. Barb get 4 skill points.
and DEX to 9 or 13 (depending on your armor choice).

So you could start with 18,9,19,10,,

Have you considered a classic Barb20/D.Battlerager5/FB5

Building a Barb. is either going full STR. or a split for STR21+/CON21.
The next decision is - do you want to shine when raging only (all the extra/extend feats)
or be useful overall and rage only sometimes. (then take PA, WF, WSP, ICRIT)

There is an amulet ac3, extended+extra rage available at a vendor
and an helmet extended+extra rage, evil only.

[Hendrak]

Hi Valefort,

thanks for doing the maths behind the build and your advise.

The defenses of the build are more impressive than i thought initially.

I know that the main weakness is the damage output.

Two more questions you might help to answer:

1. How much do i need extend rage or extra rage? I already planned one extend rage for 5 extra rounds of rage. There is an amulet in the palace district of the gate which give me extra rage and extend rage as bonus feats. I assume i will get 2 more rages per day (for a total of 7 rages) and 5 rounds extra rage ( for a total of ((Constitution Modifier+5 Rounds+5Rounds(extend rage)+5rounds(extend rage)= 7+5+5+5 = 22 rounds per rage / 7 rages per day). This finally leads to the question how much time is a round on the server and will my rages be sufficent to permanently rage?

2. How could i enhance my damage output? I would like to keep my defenses. Would also fit a role as failed kingswarden who became a dwarven slayer, and seems to be breaking some extreme ac (i could also use a towershield +4). I initially thought to take weapon specialization with my warrior lvls, but i dont know with which weapons i will end. I get a bit weapon dmg from my martial weapons and two handing. They are usally better than 1d6, normally 1d12. So my dmg calculation is :
6 (for 1d12 weapon) + 4 (EB/ElementalDmg and so on) + 18 ( 13 mod. Strength * 1,5 for Two handed in Epic Rage mode) = 28 average dmg with two handed weapon.
21-22 with a one handed weapon on average hits.
7 Attacks with the last one being +17 in epic range, +expose weakness which lets me hit more often.

Is this a build for use of the Northlender Hewing? Will i lose my 3 or 4 lowest attacks with this build? The dmg output would increase to ( 6 for 1d12 weapon +13 bludgeoning for strength in epic rage = 47 dmg points on possible 4 hits with two handed weapon in epic rage. 38-40 dmg points with a one handed weapon and shield (assuming a 1d10 or 1d8 weapon). I would loose some dmg if i assume to hit with all attacks on my two handed technique. I would gain some dmg with my one handed/shield technique. Nothing really important, but harder hits (more dmg in one hit) helps doing some epic monsters with dr. and i keep those higher hit attacks and loose the lower hit attacks.
Whats your opinion to Northlender Hewing on this build?

[Hendrak]

Epic Rage, 7 Attacks, Two Handed Weapon = 28 (assumed average) * 7 = 196 per Round if all attacks hit.

Epic Rage, 4 Attacks (Northlender Hewing), Two Handed Weapon = 47 * 4 = 188 per Round if all high hit attacks hit.

Epic Rage, 7 Attacks, One Handed Weapon/Shield = 21 or 22 (assumed average), * 7 = 147 - 154 averag dmg if all attacks hit.

Epic Rage, 4 Attacks (Northlender Hewing), One Handed Weapon/Shield = 38 or 40, * 4 = 152 or 160 dmg if all high hit attacks hit.

Can i use Northlander Hewing (wiki says its a mode) at the same time as improved combat expertise (also a mode) ?

[Valefort]

Extend rage feats do not stack as you indicate, the feat given by the item is extend rage I and you won't be able to pick Extend Rage II as a regular feat.

However the basic rage duration was buffed so you'll have 7 rages that last for 10 (base duration ) + 7 (CON modifier) + 5 (extend rage) = 22, as you said.

Also if I recall correctly at level 30 there is a minimum of 22 minutes and 30s before you can rest again.

22*7*6/60 = 15 minutes and 24 seconds

So as you see you won't be able to rage all the time even if you rest as soon as possible (which is not always possible in fact). So like Theodore said either you try to rage for as long as you can by taking as many extend rage feats as possible or you take feats to be able to stand your ground outside of rages.

You can use Northlander Hewing as the same time as ICE I think, I didn't test it though.

[Hendrak]

Thank you both for your good and quick advice.

If i understand you right, the extra/extend rage helmet/amulet wont add to my feat extend rage.

This leaves me a free feat which i could fill with power attack (i dont prefer the wf line, i dont know with which weapons i end).

I could also change the feats Greater Resiliency and Fast Healing I for Improved Power Attack and Northlander Hewing. If Northlander Hewing stacks with the modes of PowerAttack/CombatExpertise i will be able to react fitting to most situations. I can boost my already good ac or boost my dmg or combine Northlander Hewing in it for higher dmg with my highest attacks.

I am an experienced warrior who can react fine on every challenge.(high ac, high saves, expose weakness, high heal skill, dr 14, able to enhance ac, dmg or both)
And i can shine even more if i activate my babarian rage. I cant rage permanently but i am also out of rage a decent opponent in PvM enviorment.

What do you think of these changes?

[Theodore01]

Right, extend feat and item dont stack.

I'm no fan of nothlander at all. As you can still miss, while only getting half of your attacks.
As you get EW later, more than half your attacks should hit.

I don't know how the extra attack from raging counts with northlander on.
Usually its rounded down, so with 5 regular attacks, you get only 2 with northlander.


I would get knockdown earlier,
get a fighter lv at 2, so you dont have to waste skillpoints before you get AL.
Dont see the point with 11 dex, unless you have a mithral halfplate you want to use.
For a normal fullplate drop it to 9 +3dex item. And if you drop int to 13, you can raise str to 18 for an even final str number (+2 from item+10 epic rage=12 (max bonus)).

[Hendrak]

You are right another +1 str will be beneficial for this build. I also messed up the class pick order on lvl ups, it can be optimized. I ve got a mithral halfplate, therefore i choose to pick Dex 11; right guess ;D.

I tried Northlander Hewing and recognized following issues i want to share with you:

1.Barbarian Rage gives one extra attack even if Northlander Hewing is activated.But this bonus attack is not on the highest attack bonus as it is usual. Instead it uses your next lower attack bonus minus 2 through Northlander Hewing. I will test this more.
2.To get the full STR Bonus from Babarian Rage in Northlander Hewing style, you have to activate Northalnder Hewing after Babarian Rage.
3.Northlander Hewing should work also with PA/IPA/CE/ICE
4.One requisite is BAB +5 and you can pick it as fighter bonus feat, i added this to the wiki.
5.It doesnt maximize elemental bonus dmg roll, like 1d4 cold damage. But it maximizes physical bonus dmg rolls, like 1d4 bonus piercing dmg to 4 bonus piercing damage per attack.
6.It maximizes your base weapon damage on a crit. So that twohanded weapons you use have normally a high crit modifier and will get (1d12/*3) 36 + enchantment+ bonus damage + strength * 1,5 + Strength bludgeon damage through Northlander Hewing.
Seems Northlander Hewing can be a decent pick for Babarians with that bonus attack rage. Could be nice on high DR monsters.

I will add the additional information to the wiki in a short time. I ve found some question on this feat on the old forums but couldnt open them anymore. Will clarify some questions about it.