Language Skill.

[Mallore]

((Inspired by another players post))


Can we add language as a skill to our server. After spending a skill point you get to select a language.


This is how languages are suppose to work in Paper and Pen. When you create a character you get you racial language + int modifier + any class language. After that point you can only gain language by spending a skill point to take a new language. Unlike other skills, language does not have ranks instead it allows you to take a new language. You are not suppose to gain a new language every time your Int modifier goes up.

While in an idea world, we would only use the above system, people would feel we are taking away from them rathe then correcting an error. As such I would like to propose we continue forward with the rest of the idea and that is a skill point for a language.


The benefit here is that it gives more use and value to skill points, selecting skills becomes more important too.

There are classes who would have more languages such as Bard and other high skill point classes that would buy and should have more languages but do not mechanically up their Int scores for numerous good reasons.


Every player can benefit from this skill. It is not restricted to any class.

This idea hurts no class or takes away anything special from a group of players.

It should be 1 point for 1 language. As per PnP. Anything else is an over tax on an already thin resource here, skill points. Languages do not hurt the game mechanically. Further it is a matter of balance as some builds will not be able to afford more then a couple of points. If a player wants to spend 20 points of skill to know all languages then I am fine with that and we shouldn't hamper someone's rp. Why they have 20 skill points to spend like that baffles me, but none of us should discourage this rp. New rp even, and that is fun to have.

I am not opposed to a language cap, a certian Max allowed but this should apply to all players, all characters no matter how they gain the language. Fairness must be present.

I would rather not see a cap.


I hope we all consider adding this skill to the server, as it is how many players can gain more languages with out the costly use of a feat needed for other uses.

Thanks.

[Blackman D]

aside from the fact that getting languages to work right with just racial, int and a background feat was a nightmare and adding a skill would just probably make things worse

it wouldnt make much sense to have low int people with like 15 languages because they dont have anything else better to put skills into *cough*fighters*cough*

[Mallore]

aside from the fact that getting languages to work right with just racial, int and a background feat was a nightmare and adding a skill would just probably make things worse

it wouldnt make much sense to have low int people with like 15 languages because they dont have anything else better to put skills into *cough*fighters*cough*

Heh.

Well first if fighters have nothing better to do with their few skill points sounds like a problem with our skill system. Though this isn't really going to happen and if it does so be it. The fighter is a savant of language and we shouldn't be hurting her rp.

Now

What doesn't make sense is "oh my int boosted" I get a language. After all where did you get the time to learn that language? I would argue the fighter has a hell of a lot more time to learn that language. There is actually no real connection between raw intellegince and ability to speak languages. I know some really inept people but they can speak three languages easier then some really smart nerds I know.

Anyways do you really want to apply logic to this game? It's always ended up on a bad slop of silly.

Some people are just better at it.


Though I hope if it's possible this would have your backing for the sake of the vast majority this will benefit. Over the one straw or random possible that might seem odd.

This will benefit far more people. And heck open up more rp. We all
Like that.

[chad878262]

I would suggest something like 10 skill points = 1 language...So spending 30 points gets you 3 extra languages. Of course adding such a skill would beg the question of which classes would have it as a class skill.

[Mallore]

I would suggest something like 10 skill points = 1 language...So spending 30 points gets you 3 extra languages. Of course adding such a skill would beg the question of which classes would have it as a class skill.

First according to the Book, its a class skill for all classes in Dungeons and Dragons. Considering we use other skills right out of the book we should do the same here.

LOL who could afford that?

Bards, Rogues, Ninjas, Rangers, Duelists, Swashbucklers, Paladins, and a list of other classes could never afford this, and they are the ones who need this. These are classes who start with decent int, but for the most part cant afford to put more points into Int to trigger additioanl lanagues. But have a spare skill point or three by the time they hit level 30.

If you are affraid of abuse we can make it cross class for certian classes so the fighter cant end up with 15 languageus (yet we let wizards end up with that, why!?) then she can only get 7 but why are we policing this rp? why are we anti this rp? I do not know.

Further.

I wager if anyone wants a real veiw on this, we fix languages,

You get your Racial + Int Mod + class and that's it unless you buy them with skill points.

We do this and you will see a ton of people calling for 1 for 1 when it comes to cost of language and a skill.

So lets go by the book =)

Though people will feel they are losing something instead of a fix. So lets go 1 for 1 as it is, languages do not break the game and if they where a real concern we would reset the whole system and make it work the way it should.

[Blackman D]

What doesn't make sense is "oh my int boosted" I get a language. After all where did you get the time to learn that language?

it takes 8 levels to gain +2 int for 1 extra language, a skill would gain every level... which one doesnt sound feasible as far as learning goes?

at least if its 10:1 that would be 10 levels for a language similar to a stat increase

[chad878262]

middle ground would be perhaps 5:1... In this manner you could get an additional language at level 2 and then every 5 levels thereafter, depending upon how many skill points you want to allocate.

With regard to what one can afford, I would put forward that there are limited skills that have true mechanical value... You have Hide, MS, tumble, spot, bluff (if feint feat), search, set trap (if a trapper) disable device, pick pocket, appraise (if you want to make more money grinding loot), and spellcraft. Those are the only skills that really have to be maxed out. otherwise taking skills to ~15 should be enough. Really other than tumble and spellcraft, most skills boil down to RP or what you are trying to build.

All that said, I see this as more of a discussion for DM's as it would be more of a server/lore question than a mechanical one. Though as BMD says with all the issues languages have caused it's probably a good idea for Valefort or Rasael to weigh in on how difficult such a skill would be to implement.

[Mallore]

What doesn't make sense is "oh my int boosted" I get a language. After all where did you get the time to learn that language?

it takes 8 levels to gain +2 int for 1 extra language, a skill would gain every level... which one doesnt sound feasible as far as learning goes?

at least if its 10:1 that would be 10 levels for a language similar to a stat increase

It takes a feat at an odd number to gain +1 int and +1 language.

You shouldn't gain a language with later int boosts. (But it's what we have even though this is against theme)

10 skill points is punishing to classes that require and need skill points just to gain what they should have access to for one point. Some of these classes can not afford 10skill points. This punishing is only to persevere some idea a low int character shouldn't have more then one language which is false. Why do we want to punish a vast majority who are benefited to preserve this false minority that will not and does not exist and if so, so what? Who is hurt?


We copy so much out of paper and pen when it benefits ourselves, this benefits all and we should do it as the game writes.


Why limit languages anyways? Who is it hurting?

If languages was a balance issue or really mattered we would dump everyone's languge, reset it and use the paper and pen system. We don't, I don't think the will is there to do so, so be it, let's do this.

[Blackman D]

languages should be limited to some degree but thats really not the point

changing the languages caused a huge headache and it would potentially be inducing that again, but like chad said, a dev would need to comment and then the DMs would have to be ok with it

[Valefort]

Should be doable.

[RedLancer]

1-for-1 skill points for languages diminishes the RP value of languages by allowing everyone to speak everything. Functionally, you might as well remove all of the additional languages instead of making them so trivial to acquire. The current system (INT mod, feat) is superior for RP value.

[Hidennka]

What Lancer said.

Also, I believe the language selection window doesn't scroll, so having more than a certain obtainable amount jacks it up.

[Mallore]

1-for-1 skill points for languages diminishes the RP value of languages by allowing everyone to speak everything. Functionally, you might as well remove all of the additional languages instead of making them so trivial to acquire. The current system (INT mod, feat) is superior for RP value.

While I agree about rp value this current system doesn't honor it.


But I can hear the reasoning behind your argument. So what we should do then is just let the system be as PNP is. Feat and Skill points.

However if we do this. You will hear a ton of calls for. 1 for 1 or 2 for 1. 10 or even 5 is to high a cost to the classes who should have the languages, acess to them, and need. As some of these classes have to make skill point choices already and are not bursting with experience like the extreme example of the fighter

[RedLancer]

I disagree entirely. In PnP, DMs can govern selection of languages. "No, you haven't been exposed to Draconic, so you can't use a skill point to know Draconic." DMs can't do that on a server of this scale.

To your point about skill-point availability, what you're proposing is that PCs more or less gain a persistent and superior version of the Tongues spell for a minimal investment. It's fairly common for a human rogue to get 11 skill points per level. That's 11 languages if they decide to give up a single level's skill points, which is mechanically viable.

It's just not interesting and eliminates the point of having the languages in the first place.

[Camera9]

Hi guys, just a little contribution to this interesting discussion

as long as you choose to invest points in languages they should be considered, for all intents, as skills since they'll give you the opportunity to interact more in the world around you.

As Mallore said, according to the book you should get one language for every point you decide to put in the "speak language" skill; that means that you're giving up on other skill points (listen, spot, hide, knowledge ecc...) in order to get something different but still useful for your PC to do something, act and face a situation with the language proficiency.
Maybe you won't have enough points to hide from a creature, or not enough points in knowledge to predict that creature's behaviour, or not enough points to listen that creature sneaking around but if you know its language you'll still be able to interact somehow with the same creature. That's why (in my opinion) in PnP there is a skill for languages! Of course I also understand that in a PW you have less chances to exploit these kind of skills and it's not an easy decision.

Anyway skills points should reflect efforts and time spent in training; no surprise fighters have few points and the same is for mages: they choose to dedicate all of their time in study or fight so there's not too much left for them. It's far from be perfect or realistic but that's how I think they've tried to balance the classes.

RedLancer has a point, you can potentially spend 24 points and learn all the languages but you should ask yourself: is the porpouse of my character to be a polyglot? Does he/she train everyday to get there? If the answers are yes and yes, and if the character has a deep reason to do so, why not? That character will be skillful in languages at the cost of other skills and hopefully he/she will have a chance to play that advantage ^_^

A part from this exceptional case some characters may want to spend a point to learn a new language expecially if they are outcast, or travellers or anything that requires them to adapt in a new environment. The foreign language will be the highest obstacle and their skill points in that case could be their only hope!