Server Suggestion: The Joy of Languages

[The_RP_Addict]

So this is somewhat of an odd idea but inspired by the old pnp skill, speak languages:

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Speak Language (None; Trained Only)

Action
Not applicable.

Try Again
Not applicable. There are no Speak Language checks to fail.

The Speak Language skill doesn’t work like other skills. Languages work as follows.

You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus.
You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.

You don’t make Speak Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.
A literate character (anyone but a barbarian who has not spent skill points to become literate) can read and write any language she speaks. Each language has an alphabet, though sometimes several spoken languages share a single alphabet.

Now as adding in a new skill might be a bit of a pain in the butt, id had an interesting idea of how to use the current system, although with a little bit of dm needed from a dm in game to grant the additional languages.

so my idea is this,

for every 10 points invested in certain knowledge skills you can pick a bonus language from the following lists:

LORE: ARCANA

Magic related languages ie Draconic

LORE: ARCHITECTURE & ENGINEERING

Dwarven! ;D

LORE: DUNGEONEERING

Monster languages

LORE: GEOGRAPHY

Regional Languages

LORE: HISTORY

Dead Language, Nethiese ect

LORE: LOCAL

Any races's langual native to BG's region

LORE: NATURE

fey language

LORE: NOBILITY AND ROYALTY

Elven perhaps?

LORE: RELIGION

Celestial, Abyessal, Infernal

LORE: THE PLANES

Elemental Languages, or a language of outsiders

so, what do you think?

[Hawke]

Moved to the Suggestions boards

[The_RP_Addict]

thankyou

[Flights of Fantasy]

I like the sound of it. To be frank, with the exception of the new Foreigner Background Feat that can be selected at creation, I don't think I'll ever invest in the other learn language feats.

[Tsidkenu]

I wouldn't waste a feat on Learn Language when it's supposed to be a skill (however difficult that is to actually implement IG).

[Rasael]

We have speak languages as a (disabled) skill. It wasn't enabled because there were concerns we were changing too much at the same time. So we left it alone.

Other concerns were that it would hit low-skill characters very hard. They lose languages. Which is hard to explain in-character. Combined with other changes at the time it seemed better to let it rest.

[Mallore]

We have speak languages as a (disabled) skill. It wasn't enabled because there were concerns we were changing too much at the same time. So we left it alone.

Other concerns were that it would hit low-skill characters very hard. They lose languages. Which is hard to explain in-character. Combined with other changes at the time it seemed better to let it rest.

So instead we hit the classes that should have access to languages with skill points, with a negative?

Classes that should be able to buy extra languages can not because of this decision and instead we have people getting languages just for increasing their Int, which makes no sense at all.

While I am all for the change to the way it should be, and for those with low skill points, well they have to make a choice, that is part of character creation like any other feature. We should at least have an option to buy languages at a fair rate.

What is the system you have in place that is disabled?

[Side]

Yes, instead of forcing everyone who chose to build their characters around the way it currently works to RCR it was decided that classes that should be able to learn languages through skill points would not be able to do so.

You'd pretty much have to pair this sort of change with another period of 100% RCR, which I don't see happening again for quite some time. Until there's enough new content to allow another 100% RCR I think this is a fair trade.

[Mallore]

Yes, instead of forcing everyone who chose to build their characters around the way it currently works to RCR it was decided that classes that should be able to learn languages through skill points would not be able to do so.

You'd pretty much have to pair this sort of change with another period of 100% RCR, which I don't see happening again for quite some time. Until there's enough new content to allow another 100% RCR I think this is a fair trade.

No one built around languages. No one said hey My concept is languages and to have them all. And anyone who did, that rare unicorn can rcr.

Or we can have a practical approach which is to enable it now to allow players the ability to do what they should have had access to earlier.

Why can't the skill and the current system exist at the same time?

Why can't we have the skill going forward and end the current system now. Thus no one loses out unless they rcr for some strange reason.


There is practical solutions.


It is disgusting we punish a vast amount of builds and a player base to avoid rare unicorns.

[Side]

What is your end goal Mallore? Do you want more access to languages for everyone? That is what it seems like, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

If we overshoot on language availability there will be little to no use for the language system. Everyone would have access to the basic languages. I don't know about you but everyone speaking elvish, dwarf, and the like is more than a little odd and takes away any flavor these languages would have had. This is what having both systems active at the same time would do, give too much access to languages. That or the skill language system would require such a skill point investment that only people who already have skill points to spare would bother.

If you use skills instead of INT you run into the problem of deciding what happens to all current characters. Do they get to keep all of their languages? Depending on how the system is written this isn't necessarily an option. Rasael made it seem like the languages would be removed if we switched, which hits the RP of anyone who currently has a character who's RP involves a non-innate language. This is not even close to a "rare unicorn" situation.

Everyone with a current character who uses a non-innate language would have to relearn it before they can continue any related RP. If they were level 30 this means they have to decide between dropping previous RP like it never happened or performing an RCR. Do you see a third option? If you do please point it out, because I really don't see it. Maybe you don't involve yourself in a lot of language based RP, but I see a fair amount of it that would be thrown under the bus if currently known languages were not maintained.

Forcing the change on everyone, from the way I see it, would be far more of a punishment than not having access to some bonus languages. People who didn't invest in INT made their choice after all. They knew how the current system worked and decided to use it as is. I see this change as far more of a punishment to them than a boon to high skillpoint classes who didn't invest in INT. As I said, maybe once enough content is added to allow for another 100% RCR period we could look into making a full system a reality without hurting anyone, but that's not likely to happen for a long time.

In the meantime something like The_RP_Addict's suggestion would be a good middleground, though I'd probably go for every 15 points in the skills instead of 10. I'm on the side of the less known a language is the more RP strength it has among people who know it.

[Mallore]

Side. My goal is to make the language system acess able to any character who wishes to use it as per the paper and pen rules.

Right now our language system punishes player who can not afford to put additional points into int. Take a bard or rogue. Both high skill point classes and by lore very good at languages. A bard can tell a tale in many tongues while a smuggler knows all sorts of tongues to make deals with just about anything. Other classes like Ninja and some high skill point prestige class's should also have access, master of disguise who can't buy Languges????

Our server does not afford these classes extra int points while leveling because they need to be put into dex, str, or charisma inorder to achieve half way decent builds to survive it's pve content.

However it is rewarding a particular group languages for doing what they would be doing anyways. This being int based characters.


Essentially this should have been done from the get go and we should have gone to it sooner.

So while I want Languges to matter and I am the first to defend rp it should be done correctly as the current system does not do that at all. It is incorrect lore, it punishes a group who should have access to the skill while rewarding another group for investment into a primary class stat. Who which int characters still would get acess to the skill to buy like anyone else.


My idea situation is a full rest of Languges. However is it not atleast fair to do this going forward. To turn on Languges as a skill and no longer reward them for int stat boost past character creation as per paper and pen

This way the rarity of the spoke word is kept for role play but properally open to those who wish to take it or not. And further open to the class's who should have access to it.

If turning on the proper system doesn't break anything, we should start it sooner then later to allow the proper use of the skill and ability for role play.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

I don't see an easy to accomplish goal here without an RCR in play, and with significant disruption to existing facilitated language RP as Side mentioned. Especially where the UD is concerned.

[Mallore]

I don't see an easy to accomplish goal here without an RCR in play, and with significant disruption to existing facilitated language RP as Side mentioned. Especially where the UD is concerned.

So we can not just add the skill or turn on the function. ?

Language rp is important. And classes that should have access do not unless they spend a much needed feat slot.

Is there other solutions to address this error? So players who should be able to purchase language with skill points can. the purchase system is the pnp way not our system which is not allowing others acess to this ability.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Keep in mind we're not PnP, we're emulating it, some things don't translate well to a cRPG. That aside, I agree with the proposed approach but it isn't likely to see the light of day until another major free RCR scenario.