Returning Player, Spellcaster assistance requested

[Relleck]

Hey folk. I played a good while back, had a OOBI char and so had to reroll into something else. I remember always wanted to play a Frostmage because thematically they seemed cool, even if mechanically they're..OK. So, I went ahead and followed a guide I believed would be effective and also interesting to RP. That guide is here: http://nwn2db.com/build/?107918

I am currently level 21.

My questions are basically the below:

-Am I a "blaster" or a "DC Caster"? Essentially, what exactly is this build aiming for? I have resistant-immune ice-based blasts, but the build does seem to focus heavily on Necromancy DC.

-How should I be managing my spellbook for solo and party play? I guess my concerns are, for one, you just dont bring out an undead in any group environment (And even if you could, my investment in PM is too little atm, so the summon is terrible). My ice spells are neat in that they pierce all resistances...but I've found that they're ironically pretty poor spells when compared against others like Flame Arrow or Combust(?), nevermind some Necro-based aoe spells as well (Seriously, whats the deal with frost and cone attacks? The cones are awful and miss frequently).

I'm really just looking for how to play the character and not feel too weak in any situation, so any advice would be appreciated!

[Deathgrowl]

The necromancy focus feats here aren't worth much. Your base int is too low to be a DC caster. And frost mage by design is a blaster focused PRC. If you wanted to take spell focus feats, evocation would thus have been more appropriate.

This calls for just filling up your spell book with as many frost spells as possible. You have empower and maximise. Ice storm, lesser and normal orbs of cold, polar ray, cone of cold and so on.

Maybe a few IGMS for those other kinds of situations.

But yeah, for a frost mage, packing frost spells tends to be the best. The usage of cone spells just take a bit of practice.

As for your undead, you should probably only use that when soloing. Give it some buffs and the palemaster 9 and 10 summon is the best long-lasting summon in the game apart from druid/ranger companion.

[Relleck]

Thanks for the info.

Should I be replacing the Necromancy Focus's on lvls 23 and 25 to different feats?

And, if I buff my undead if immunity to cold, he will still get hit by my cold cones and AoE's, right? Since I'm not going to be an Archmage, what are some good tactics to be able to solo with a summon without unintentionally killing it with my own spells?

[Kiran]

Give it immune to cold spell?

[Deathgrowl]

Thanks for the info.

Should I be replacing the Necromancy Focus's on lvls 23 and 25 to different feats?

And, if I buff my undead if immunity to cold, he will still get hit by my cold cones and AoE's, right? Since I'm not going to be an Archmage, what are some good tactics to be able to solo with a summon without unintentionally killing it with my own spells?

Don't AoE on it, basically. Usually when you're soloing, you want the summon to do most of the work anyways. You should just step in when it starts getting overwhelmed.

[Relleck]

Thanks for the info.

Should I be replacing the Necromancy Focus's on lvls 23 and 25 to different feats?

And, if I buff my undead if immunity to cold, he will still get hit by my cold cones and AoE's, right? Since I'm not going to be an Archmage, what are some good tactics to be able to solo with a summon without unintentionally killing it with my own spells?

Don't AoE on it, basically. Usually when you're soloing, you want the summon to do most of the work anyways. You should just step in when it starts getting overwhelmed.

Hmm, I see.

Since it's going to be a solid 6 levels before I have access to PM 9 summon, would I be best off using lvl 9 summon creature (and water ele I assume?) or the greater undead (which is really short duration)?

Thanks.

[chad878262]

The level 6 spell control undead is 1 hour/level and buffed up should be capable enough for you. Otherwise Summon creature should be fine too.

[Deathgrowl]

Summon Creature IX is probably better than PM6 summon. Higher AB and AC. The main reason the PM9 and PM10 are so good, is that they are vampires and regenerate very fast. PM9 also has a fantastic knockdown which, while it's not fantastically reliable, is great when it happens.

PM10 is a swashbuckler 15 if I recall correctly. That means -2 strength to the target if the summon crits. Unarmed, so it doesn't happen all that often, but it's still really cool. It also casts Dominate Person.

[Invoker]

Hey folk. I played a good while back, had a OOBI char and so had to reroll into something else. I remember always wanted to play a Frostmage because thematically they seemed cool, even if mechanically they're..OK. So, I went ahead and followed a guide I believed would be effective and also interesting to RP. That guide is here: http://nwn2db.com/build/?107918

Picking one of Simian's build and hoping to be effective requires a bit of...optimism. If I could, I would build you something far stronger, but since

I am currently level 21.

and it's already too late for that, I will help you the best I can. Good news: you're a wizard. If you play perfectly, you'll be fine no matter what.

My questions are basically the below:

-Am I a "blaster" or a "DC Caster"? Essentially, what exactly is this build aiming for? I have resistant-immune ice-based blasts, but the build does seem to focus heavily on Necromancy DC.

The build cannot be a DC caster: all your PrCs (Pale Master, Frost Mage, Arcane Scholar even more so) not only do nothing for your DC, but they actually get in the way of it by lowering your CL and eating feats like there's no tomorrow. Moreover, you only have 5 wizard levels, while one of the best ideas you can have when building a DC wizard is to take an additional 5 levels in the epics, for 2 additional bonus feats (Greater INTs, usually). This is especially good with Red Wizards and Shadow Adepts, for instance, for which pure DC is especially important since they give up so much for it.

Thus, Spellcasting Prodigy and the three Focus Feats in Necromancy are not attuned to the general direction your build takes. Moreover, Winter Blast (like all reserve feats) is an absolute joke. Just treat it as RP flavor.

Since you have Spellcasting Prodigy already, and (fortunately) Vampiric Feast, the first move is ditching the two Focus Feats in the epics and get two Greater Ints. Additionally to granting you extra spells (of which one is a 9th Circle slot if memory serves me well, meaning you just got yourself an extra Empowered Polar Ray, your signature spell), this will (like Prodigy) also directly influence your Vampiric Feast's DC, as well as doing the same for all your other spells.

That's all we can do for the build

-How should I be managing my spellbook for solo and party play? I guess my concerns are, for one, you just dont bring out an undead in any group environment (And even if you could, my investment in PM is too little atm, so the summon is terrible). My ice spells are neat in that they pierce all resistances...but I've found that they're ironically pretty poor spells when compared against others like Flame Arrow or Combust(?), nevermind some Necro-based aoe spells as well (Seriously, whats the deal with frost and cone attacks? The cones are awful and miss frequently).

Frost spells are actually very strong. AoE Necromancy spells like Horrid Wilting aren't better than what you have, and fire spells are generally more destructive, yes, but can be completely negated by reflex saves on enemies with Evasion/Imp. Evasion (which is more common than you think), or at least halved if they don't have those feats.

Cold spells like Ice Storm, Ice Darts and Orb of Cold deal excellent damage, and belong to circles low enough that you can easily apply metamagic feats to them to make them far more effective than spells belonging to much higher circles.

Arcane Scholar also allows you to cast Empowered Polar Rays, which are among the most devastating direct damage spells available in game.

All the spells mentioned above, contrarily to fire spells and Necromancy ones, allow no save nor immunity (because of piercing cold), and will be effective against everything that does not have a Spell Resistance so high you cannot reliably piercing, or a spell mantle up. So, everything, basically.

Ice Storm (which keeps scaling with CL, uncapped, just like Flame Arrow), being AoE and allowing no save, is particularly effective at killing stealthed units

You should metamagic several of these spells, memorize the buffs you and eventually your team or summon need (Energy Immunity Fire and Energy Buffer as a backup come to mind, so that you don't get one-shot by a fire trap you didn't see), and generally don't cast anything (or use the ridiculous Winter Blast, which is the same thing...) unless it's needed, or unless it's a boss fight and you wish to speed up the kill. Frost Mage is one of the few effective blasters in a boss fight, given the ridiculous immunities they have (see Balor for reference).

Be sure you have enough mirror images (a quickened one wouldn't hurt, when you get there), and Ethereal Jaunt in case you need to relocate. (Quickened) Expeditious Retreat is also an important spell, for obvious reasons.

I'm really just looking for how to play the character and not feel too weak in any situation, so any advice would be appreciated!

Unless you want to use DC spells without proper setup (Enervation/Energy Drain or both, for instance, before you Vampiric Feast a boss...), you won't feel weak at all.

Have fun!

[Relleck]

Hey folk. I played a good while back, had a OOBI char and so had to reroll into something else. I remember always wanted to play a Frostmage because thematically they seemed cool, even if mechanically they're..OK. So, I went ahead and followed a guide I believed would be effective and also interesting to RP. That guide is here: http://nwn2db.com/build/?107918

Picking one of Simian's build and hoping to be effective requires a bit of...optimism. If I could, I would build you something far stronger, but since

I am currently level 21.

and it's already too late for that, I will help you the best I can. Good news: you're a wizard. If you play perfectly, you'll be fine no matter what.

My questions are basically the below:

-Am I a "blaster" or a "DC Caster"? Essentially, what exactly is this build aiming for? I have resistant-immune ice-based blasts, but the build does seem to focus heavily on Necromancy DC.

The build cannot be a DC caster: all your PrCs (Pale Master, Frost Mage, Arcane Scholar even more so) not only do nothing for your DC, but they actually get in the way of it by lowering your CL and eating feats like there's no tomorrow. Moreover, you only have 5 wizard levels, while one of the best ideas you can have when building a DC wizard is to take an additional 5 levels in the epics, for 2 additional bonus feats (Greater INTs, usually). This is especially good with Red Wizards and Shadow Adepts, for instance, for which pure DC is especially important since they give up so much for it.

Thus, Spellcasting Prodigy and the three Focus Feats in Necromancy are not attuned to the general direction your build takes. Moreover, Winter Blast (like all reserve feats) is an absolute joke. Just treat it as RP flavor.

Since you have Spellcasting Prodigy already, and (fortunately) Vampiric Feast, the first move is ditching the two Focus Feats in the epics and get two Greater Ints. Additionally to granting you extra spells (of which one is a 9th Circle slot if memory serves me well, meaning you just got yourself an extra Empowered Polar Ray, your signature spell), this will (like Prodigy) also directly influence your Vampiric Feast's DC, as well as doing the same for all your other spells.

That's all we can do for the build

-How should I be managing my spellbook for solo and party play? I guess my concerns are, for one, you just dont bring out an undead in any group environment (And even if you could, my investment in PM is too little atm, so the summon is terrible). My ice spells are neat in that they pierce all resistances...but I've found that they're ironically pretty poor spells when compared against others like Flame Arrow or Combust(?), nevermind some Necro-based aoe spells as well (Seriously, whats the deal with frost and cone attacks? The cones are awful and miss frequently).

Frost spells are actually very strong. AoE Necromancy spells like Horrid Wilting aren't better than what you have, and fire spells are generally more destructive, yes, but can be completely negated by reflex saves on enemies with Evasion/Imp. Evasion (which is more common than you think), or at least halved if they don't have those feats.

Cold spells like Ice Storm, Ice Darts and Orb of Cold deal excellent damage, and belong to circles low enough that you can easily apply metamagic feats to them to make them far more effective than spells belonging to much higher circles.

Arcane Scholar also allows you to cast Empowered Polar Rays, which are among the most devastating direct damage spells available in game.

All the spells mentioned above, contrarily to fire spells and Necromancy ones, allow no save nor immunity (because of piercing cold), and will be effective against everything that does not have a Spell Resistance so high you cannot reliably piercing, or a spell mantle up. So, everything, basically.

Ice Storm (which keeps scaling with CL, uncapped, just like Flame Arrow), being AoE and allowing no save, is particularly effective at killing stealthed units

You should metamagic several of these spells, memorize the buffs you and eventually your team or summon need (Energy Immunity Fire and Energy Buffer as a backup come to mind, so that you don't get one-shot by a fire trap you didn't see), and generally don't cast anything (or use the ridiculous Winter Blast, which is the same thing...) unless it's needed, or unless it's a boss fight and you wish to speed up the kill. Frost Mage is one of the few effective blasters in a boss fight, given the ridiculous immunities they have (see Balor for reference).

Be sure you have enough mirror images (a quickened one wouldn't hurt, when you get there), and Ethereal Jaunt in case you need to relocate. (Quickened) Expeditious Retreat is also an important spell, for obvious reasons.

I'm really just looking for how to play the character and not feel too weak in any situation, so any advice would be appreciated!

Unless you want to use DC spells without proper setup (Enervation/Energy Drain or both, for instance, before you Vampiric Feast a boss...), you won't feel weak at all.

Have fun!

Wow, this was....immensely helpful. Thank you!

I have been strongly considering RCR'ing again with the 50% xp loss into a level 15...because like you I have realized the Necro Focus' arent great, the Int is a bit low, Winter's Blast is an absolute joke...and also, there's no CE/ICE.

I did a rebuild moving some things around...How does this one look? You mentioned you had a more powerful build in mind, how would this stack against it? And, assuming the core build isnt bad...should I drop 1 Int to pick up Vamp Feast again and aim for a +3 int item rather than pray for a +4?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?261027

Thanks!

[chad878262]

I'll leave the major comments to the experts like Invoker, one thing I notice quickly is the 5th level of ASoC at 30... I would rather have quicken spell much earlier to help with leveling... How does it help? Well, quickened Mantle, quickened dimension door, quickened invisibility or the like will allow you to avoid trips to the fugue, and one trip to the fugue generally is equivalent to at least 30 minutes, probably more like 1-2 hours of grinding for XP... So if you play for 4 hours and you die twice, how much did you really accomplish? Having Quicken allows you to quickly put up an important ward when needed, and keeping earned XP is as important as having spells to gain more XP...

I would also say, just in general that Sorcs make better blasters, so with Frost Mage and ASoC I think I would rather make a Sorc. However, that doesn't mean you can't have a WIZ blaster and your build certainly looks to be set up for that.

One last comment, and this is just personal preference, but as a blaster you don't need so much INT and you may find it useful to grab a couple of epic spells. The best one, Epic Vampiric Feast is evil only, but even call lightning storm and/or hellball could be fun to have, if you want some extra blasting spells.

The +4 INT item is relatively inexpensive and as a Neutral PC (if your build is using the actual PC alignment) I would go for it rather than 'settle' for +3... You could grab 1 epic spell + something else I suppose or if you can get a +3 INT item that has cool extra's then it might be worth it....Luckily, you don't have to decide if you will end on odd or even INT until level 27...

[aaron22]

i also noticed the quicken feels like way to late. ASoC 5 should be at latest low twenties, but the earlier the better. I would also take my PM levels earlier to give you that extra defense when you will need it most. being crit by a giant when your HP's are so low.. bad day. remember.. the comp cheats so you will get crit like no other.

[Relleck]

i also noticed the quicken feels like way to late. ASoC 5 should be at latest low twenties, but the earlier the better. I would also take my PM levels earlier to give you that extra defense when you will need it most. being crit by a giant when your HP's are so low.. bad day. remember.. the comp cheats so you will get crit like no other.

Hard to find where to get both 5 ASoC and higher PM in early 20s though without sacrificing the FM levels.