Lore Assistance

[Rhifox]

Assassins magic is the same kind of magic that wizards do, it's not different. They are arcane casters, they have a spellbook and need a high intelligence to learn their spells. Nothing 'evil' about their magic, they just focus on a limited selection of arcane spells.

Shadowdancers meanwhile use Shadow magic, also called Talfirian magic (it largely originated from the Talfir). Shadow magic uses the shadowy "stuff" that makes up the Plane of Shadow. It uses Mystra's Weave and does not rely on negative energy. It's an innate ability that runs in bloodlines, though illusionist spellcasters can also access shadow magic (it's one of the 5 subtypes of illusion magic). It is not evil but does get negatively characterized by some groups due to its darkness and origin in the Plane of Shadow (and thus Shar). It is similar to necromancy in this way (necromancy itself is not evil, as not all necromancy involves raising the undead, but people often assume the worst).

[Vesgar]

I know that here assassin needs int for the spells, but before that they were spell-like abilities. Also, assassin gets hips just like shadowdancers, which is definitely not some kind of wizardly arcane trick.

That's why I wasn't sure if it's "simple" arcane magic, shadow magic or whatever.

Thanks for the quick answer.

[Rhifox]

I know that here assassin needs int for the spells, but before that they were spell-like abilities.

Spell-like abilities was a relic of lazy coding by the original NWN2 developers, as they didn't want to make more classes with spell lists. In its pnp incarnation it has always used a spellbook and functioned like a more-limited wizard. BGTSCC just changed it to match the pnp version.

[Vesgar]

Spell-like abilities was a relic of lazy coding by the original NWN2 developers, as they didn't want to make more classes with spell lists. In its pnp incarnation it has always used a spellbook and functioned like a more-limited wizard. BGTSCC just changed it to match the pnp version.

Ah, I didn't know that, but what about hips?

[Rhifox]

Spell-like abilities was a relic of lazy coding by the original NWN2 developers, as they didn't want to make more classes with spell lists. In its pnp incarnation it has always used a spellbook and functioned like a more-limited wizard. BGTSCC just changed it to match the pnp version.

Ah, I didn't know that, but what about hips?

HiPS is a trained supernatural ability. While it's not a spell, Shadow magic is magical in the same way as any other class that has supernatural abilities--it draws on the Weave to call on a particular form of energy or magic (in this case Shadow energy), it just does so through learning how to perform the action innately instead of through spellcraft. This could be the result of heritage (as Shadow magic skills often are passed down bloodlines), or it could be from some blessing by a powerful creature, or simply secret techniques that can be learned with the right tutelage and effort (which is probably what the assassin's version is).

Regardless of how it's learned though, it's ultimately the same thing. The character is drawing on Shadow energy from the Plane of Shadow through Mystra's Weave in order to perform some sort of magical effect.

[Vesgar]

Alright, got it, thanks!

[ctothep]

Aren't an SDs abilities considered shadow magic only in 5e and onwards? If i remember correctly in 3rd edition SDs talents are supernatural which he gained through a strong relation to the shadow plane. How that relation looks like can be very different. He could have spent very long times there or perhaps he was corrupted by one of its native creatures. Perhaps it is just something he was born with.

[Rhifox]

Aren't an SDs abilities considered shadow magic only in 5e and onwards? If i remember correctly in 3rd edition SDs talents are supernatural which he gained through a strong relation to the shadow plane.

There isn't any difference between those. Shadow magic comes from the Shadow Plane. It is the supernatural essence of that plane, and feeds both shadow-based illusion spells and the supernatural abilities of shadowdancers/shadowcasters. The sources are all 3rd edition or earlier, such as Tome of Magic. I can't recall hearing of shadowdancers in 5e yet, actually?

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic

[Vesgar]

hey hey, it's me again

I heard there's a cleric spell called sense status, or something like this, that can be used to monitor the condition of the target even over great distance.

My question would follow this line of thought, is there a spell or any other way to track an individual by magical means? Either marking the target to keep track of it's movement or pinpoint the target's location with a spell or whatever?

Do these things exist and if so is it allowed to use these methods in rp?

[Rhifox]

There are spells that locate people in pnp. They don't exist on BGTSCC though, so you're not technically allowed to use them on BG. BG does have scrying, which technically allows you to eavesdrop on people from a distance (and so possibly discern people's location that way), but using it from another zone requires some manner of OOC consent by the other player. It also may not be entirely approved of for that use by DMs (since they aren't there to arbitrate the Will save roll), but I personally have used it to ICly locate people a few times as I feel that kind of thing is fine as long as both players are okay with it.

[Vesgar]

Yeah, I found scrying, but sadly that spell can't be scribed on a scroll or casted on a wand, so that's only for actual arcane spellcasters like wizards and such. (just like shadow pack, which could be awesome otherwise :p) Also what you said, it can't be used over multiple zones, so I can't really use that to at least find the broader direction of my target.

It seems like my bounty hunter/assassin must learn to use his nose to find his targets

[Jaffool]

On the above-mentioned assassin's in the realms, I have a few questions.

1.) How long should it take a newly trained assassin (INT-based Swashbuckler/Duelist going into assassin if that helps) to learn spellcasting if I were to role-play it? I've been receiving lessons from a wizard friend as I thought it would make for good role-play but I'm unsure of how quickly to progress.

2.) Is it okay to say that my character can have picked up Assassin's Can't by way of books and studying? Or is this something of a hidden language, a la Sylvan and Druidic?

3.) How to role-play death attack? Is it like an hyper-accurate sneak attack, or should it be played like a poison? Something else?

Side-note: Flanking doesn't add my death attack damage, but that might be because I don't yet have normal sneak attack dice. The Fort save should only apply when they are not in combat, but the damage seems like it should apply like sneak attack. Working as intended?
Will Feint allow for Death attacks, with or without Fort saves?

Thanks!

[burbles]

My 2 cents:
1) Spellcasting is difficult to learn mainly because of the way it's been learned normaly: there are no good 'manuals' on spellcasting available to the public, but many obscure personal writings, which are not created specificaly to teach from ground up. That makes magic very difficult to learn without a master. Masters on the other hand, don't usualy like to teach students too fast, or even know how to do it well. They may just imitate their own learning process the way their master taught them and take their time. There are magic academies (not many), but entry is not very easy and it is not even guaranteed that you'd be taught properly. So the pace of your learning would depend on your magician friend willingness to teach you, his ability to impart his knowledge, your ability to grasp it both theoreticaly and practicaly.
2) Thieves Cant is not a language you can learn from books. It's learned from exposure and it's local-specific. If you are already a thief with knowledge of how this 'langage' works, you can learn local cant by delving into local underground for a few weeks. One city's Cant is different from another, but guild thieves may have it more standartised, of course, in their own guild.

[Rasael]

How long should it take a newly trained assassin (INT-based Swashbuckler/Duelist going into assassin if that helps) to learn spellcasting if I were to role-play it? I've been receiving lessons from a wizard friend as I thought it would make for good role-play but I'm unsure of how quickly to progress.

It can take a life time to master a single spell. The rate of advancement for low level students is a couple of simple spells per year.

A level 1 wizard gets a small number of spells when you roll the character. Those spells represent what a normal student might learn in a couple of years if they dedicate themselves.

The two bottlenecks when it comes to studying magic are,

a) Practically all magic requires spell components. These often cost a lot of money. So it isn't as simple as finding someone to teach you. Said teacher also has to supply the spell components, of which you will waste a lot during your studies.

b) There aren't that many organised educational institutions for learning magic. There isn't an established curriculum. No standard text-books. In fact, most texts have to be copied by hand. So its quite expensive to acquire to books and other sorts of educational materials.

[K'yon Oblodra]

The two bottlenecks when it comes to studying magic are,

b) There aren't that many organised educational institutions for learning magic. There isn't an established curriculum. No standard text-books. In fact, most texts have to be copied by hand. So its quite expensive to acquire to books and other sorts of educational materials.

Don't want to advertise here but the School of Necromancy is a good place to learn the arcane arts. Should be drow though

Totally not advertising!!!