XP penalty for summons

[dedude]

What is the current XP penalty for using a summon? Is the penalty higher if you have two summons? Is there supposed to actually be a penalty for this?

Spotted a post from Valefort saying that the penalty was being removed, but I believe it's still in place, right?

[Valefort]

What was removed was a penalty for having a dominated creature compared to a classic summon. Since the summoning system relies on dominated summons it was penalizing.

[Cowbot]

Before the last update, whenever I summoned a creature I got a sharp xp penalty. Animal companions didn't trigger it.

I don't know if it still happens after the update earlier this week.

[Nachti]

With my Level 19 character I get the following xp:

Solo:
Hill Giant: 33 xp
Hill Giant Brute: 33 xp
Hill Giant Commander: 37 xp
Blink Dog: 37 xp

With 1 Level 17 summon:
Hill Giant: 26 xp
Hill Giant Brute: 26 xp
Hill Giant Commander: 29 xp
Blink Dog: 29 xp

With 4 Level 17 summons:
Hill Giant: 18 xp
Hill Giant Brute: 18 xp
Hill Giant Commander: 21 xp
Blink Dog: 21 xp

[dedude]

Thanks for the info guys.

[Glowfire]

That's a huge difference Nachti. 7 to 8 xp difference between solo and 1 summon. Is that still the case..?

Also, is that the same difference between soloing and partying up with a player character?


I don't mind a small difference but most who use a summon will also have the summon make the kill, which means the summon gets the 'deathblow' xp too.

[dedude]

It is definitely still the case. It's probably default behavior in NWN2. I would avoid using multiple summons at the same time unless you absolutely need it.

[chad878262]

Generally one summon, buffed up appropriately should be able to handle CR appropriate content fairly easily. When I was leveling Tarent I started out at low levels using scrolls of Summon creature 6 when I could afford them, but when I couldn't I generally found by level 7 I could pretty much summon, buff, go invisible and run around allowing the summon to fight until buffs started to go down.

The annoying thing at low levels is the need to rest really often because minute / level is usually needed for your summon to have serviceable AC, AB and damage. Once you approach the low to mid-teens it is much less frustrating. None of this is to say that I don't agree that parties/summons shouldn't reduce XP. If anything grouping up should be rewarded.

Also, considering some summoning spells bring forth more than one summon that shouldn't be penalized IMO.

[dedude]

None of this is to say that I don't agree that parties/summons shouldn't reduce XP.

I had to read that 4 times, and I'm still not 100% sure if I got the negations right.

[chad878262]

yes, that is the rarely seen TRIPLE NEGATIVE! I really should get a cup of coffee...

In my defense I have been reviewing legal contracts in between my meanderings here on the forums and that will make anyone have trouble writing in plain English!

What I meant to say, was that I agree that you should gain full XP with summons/parties instead of taking a penalty for being a part of a group...

[dedude]

Using summon 5 with full set of cleric buffs and augment summoning, it won't last many minutes on its own. Low ac and no stoneskin means it gets chewed up very fast unless I grab the aggro or constantly heal it. Mages have better buffs, so they will do better as conjurers/thaumaturges.

PS thanks for the clarification Chad

[Glowfire]

Maybe that is something that QC can discuss? As I wrote, I don't mind a small penalty but a 7-8 xp difference is huge.

The summoning spells that call upon multiples are all rounds in duration. Tbh I don't know why you'd spend a 3 round casting time to summon something that isn't going to be around for a long time and they're so obviously bad to use for getting xp. ((15-22 xp less per kill?! No thank you.))

[chad878262]

linked this thread to QC for discussion.

[Hawke]

I thought at one point in time Summons were not counted as a party member in regards to XP.

I just tested this out in Sharptooth and an Orc Raider with

2 summons gave 17 XP.
1 summons gave 20 XP.
0 summons gave 25 XP.

Normally I can understand a couple xp hit for adding help to a fight... but it IS a class feature. I am not penalized for using other spells. Maybe for 2 summons add something in there, but an 8 XP hit for each kill does add up.

Thanks for looking into this.