Evasion - Not in Heavy/Medium Armor

[SBlack]

Uhm...I'm talking about "nerfing" my own build.

Rogues and monks cannot use evasion in medium or heavy armor. Some creatures with the evasion ability as an innate quality do not have this limitation.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Evasio ... ed_Evasion

Evasion can be used only if you are wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless character does not gain the benefit of evasion.

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Evasion_(3.5e_Feat)

Evasion (Ex)

At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm

Quoting the wiki again when you know what the gamebook says contradicts it. Shame on you Steve. Shame on you. You know what the gamebook says, why do you keep quoting the wiki which is incorrect when you know the wiki is incorrect and nothing but a pile of lies in this regard? I can only imagine you REALLY REALLY want to get your way and change the server to benefit your own chosen play style while screwing over others remorsefully who don't coincide with your particular play style.

[Steve]

The game book is not the Bible.

And, I'm not quoting just the Wiki, but multiple sources related to 3.5e D&D.

My way really doesn't matter here. What matters is how the Feat is supposed to work, regarding the sources available. Now, scan your bible page and place that in contrast to the online multiple sources, and let those in QC recommend what the "truth" is, and what the result should be.

The exaggeration and assumption about me, really are not making any sort of progress on this issue....according to me!!! Haha.

[SBlack]

The game book is not the Bible.

Selflish in the extreme Getyourwayism is clear while remorsefully screwing over others playstyles . Thankye for admitting trying to impose your position and playstyle upon others and not based on gamebook mechanics.

[Steve]

Selflish in the extreme Getyourwayism is clear while remorsefully screwing over others playstyles . Thankye for admitting trying to impose your position and playstyle upon others and not based on gamebook mechanics.

Are you for real?!? Get out of here with this rubbish!

[Diamore]

All from the Dungeons and Dragons Players Hand Book 3.5 Core rules.

Page 41
Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armour or no armour.

Page 49
Evasion can be used only if a ranger is wearing light armour or no armour.

Page 50
Evasion can be used only if a rogue is wearing light armour or no armour.

Now move on from the obsession with the nwn2 manual and explain how this change negatively impacts your play-style, build or enjoyment.

[ohboy007]

You could just play a caster...problem solved, give me money! Oh me and my obsessions...

[Sputnik]

You could just play a caster...problem solved, give me money! Oh me and my obsessions...

That's probably what I'll do with the 100% RCR they give us IF they push this [expletive deleted] garbage through.
Either that or find another game.

I've seen some arguments on this forum stating that we should be more like PnP... from the same people who in other posts claim that this game ISN'T PnP and shouldn't be treated as such.
Make up your minds, please! Your bias is showing.

All of this because of an auto-hit bug! Which, I agree should be fixed.
Thing is, it STILL isn't fixed and those builds who will still be able to use expose weakness are still going to score auto-hits. What is the point of such a change if the very bug that caused all the hoopla cannot be fixed in the first place? It's [expletive deleted] laughable.

This will definitely impact my playstyle quite a bit. So much so, that as mentioned, I'll either be re-rolling or leaving.

I played way too long and worked way too hard on making a lowly non-magic melee build viable for epic content and bosses to have it taken away by some [expletive deleted] who conveniently get to keep their candy.

We should have just let this long-dead horse rot, and focused on bugs that are actually fixable, or content! Things like crafting would appease the playerbase instead of angering it with divisive bullshit reasoning.

[Diamore]

Make up your minds, please! Your bias is showing.

I have no bias here and am all for the abilities and effects on the server to be closer to pnp or how they were intended to be. Debate the idea, not those proposing it.

All of this because of an auto-hit bug! Which, I agree should be fixed.

This is specifically about evasion, the Expose Weakness discussion is in another thread.

This will definitely impact my playstyle quite a bit.

How does the change of this ability to the pnp version effect your playstyle? Is there a specific boss, location or build that is no longer possible?

Things like crafting would appease the player-base instead of angering it with divisive (#2) reasoning.

Claiming the player-base is angered by this topic is an emotional appeal and not necessarily true.

If this impacts and angers you (not the player-base), what tangible change would occur to your character or locations you could play in before that you do not believe would be possible after the change?

[Kagger911]

There are a lot of people not coming forwards with their anger because this thread will get locked. Most of the people angry are angry because it is messing up the builds their buddies play or haven't heard of the change. Sure, you can make the argument that it's not necessarily true, but then your bias is showing. If anything, we should make a poll thread about a situation like this instead of letting it fall into the hands of one person. I could be incorrect though, more than likely.

[Vogar Eol]

Quality Control serves that purpose. My understanding is this is simply a sounding board or think tank to draw their notice. Ultimately QC vets or rejects, and then the people who oversee them.

[Diamore]

Sure, you can make the argument that it's not necessarily true, but then your bias is showing.

Pointing out that we do not have evidence for or against something is not a bias.

Which is why we should be discussing the merits and problems with this proposal. Emotional responses or lack thereof are not points for or against.

Please, anyone at all explain how this tangibly effects builds, play-style or enjoyment.

[Valefort]

Builds using medium/heavy armors would suddenly take damage from evocation spells and traps, that's the main consequence. They would have to heal more often, that's about it.

[chad878262]

The impact essentially would be that builds that are able to pump saves via superior resistance or other spells, as well as characters that have +4 reflex items to increase that save from low to higher end won't be able to wear their Adamantine / Mithral FP and still avoid trap damage, reflex save spell damage, dragon breath, etc.

So essentially, on this server the status quo is that you can build a low to average DEX, high STR/EDM/Caster build and still gain the ability to avoid one of the very few weaknesses you have for a relatively minor cost (3 level dip).

The reason this and similar discussions get heated is because we have all gotten used to the current way it works and many have built around it. For some, the thought of losing something powerful is a scary thing and makes them feel their build will no longer be viable, which is how some players of lower tier builds have always felt. It's an understandable reaction and is not limited to this discussion.

End of the day most of these builds will still survive even the epic traps that do 100's of points of damage and carry plenty of heal kits to recoup fairly quickly. However, when they try to solo high epic bosses that have reflex based damage they are going to feel the impact of that loss, or they will deal with losing some AC and potentially taking more melee damage.

All of this is assuming such a change actually gets implemented specifically as listed within this thread.

[Vogar Eol]

///Chad beat me, but damn it, I typed it up.///

One major effect is it's much more difficult (but not impossible) to have BOTH very high hitpoints and AC combined with useable Evasion.

This is because the Armor types useable would require more Dexterity, which means to hit AC caps on the armors you would have less free points to throw into Constitution. Well, you would if you desired to maintain your same AB / Damage and Skillpoints. In short, you couldn't maintain the exact same AB/Damage, AC, and Hitpoints and still have functional Evasion. You'd need to dump some Ability points which would hurt either you Damage Output, Skillpoints, or Hitpoint Total, -IF- you desired to maintain functional evasion. Not much either, considering things like Mithral Breastplates. You'd lose a couple points less Con, Str, or Int to up your Dex.

What would be the gameplay difference in the above? None really, your build would be a whole lot tighter in Ability points for some builds... namely hitting 21str / 21cha. Still doable, but Con and/or Int would be hurt a lot.

If you forgo worrying about useable evasion, traps and damage spells would do more damage. However, you would have a greater flexibility to apply Ability points to other things. You'd no longer be able to rush headlong into epic dungeons ignoring traps and the rogue telling you to let him lead. You'd no longer be able to ignore reflex spells, without needing clerics in party or a bunch of Healing kits / potions.

So you could party with a rogue for traps, a cleric for heals, and/or a wizard for wards and counterspells. Otherwise you could simply expect to move more slowly and carefully in epic content and use more consumables. Rushing blindly would be much more painful on the same build, minus (functioning) evasion.

[SBlack]

seems I need to wield a large hammer to pound this in:

The game manual clearly states that evasion is not hindered by heavy armor and works exactly as intended.

Given this feat is coded exactly how it's intended based on the game manual. Folk are just trying to shove their particular play styles down others throat and change the game to suit their particular desires callously at the expense of other players.


PS. Me nor Ndora are currently affected by any change to evasion since neither of us have the feat nor plan on cross classing any of our PCs .