Glass Cannon Archer

[Boddynock]

I'm going out on a limb here and saying you had special epic feats and were using melee, not a bow.

No, he's right, with that many shots in an opening attack it still works pretty often. But if it doesn't, and you REALLY need it to work, you have HIPs to try again. And even with a 29 DC it can still fail, which means you will still need HIPs and a decent Dex to save yourself using it.

[Vogar Eol]

My point is I've never seen Death Attack give a Fort Save unless the enemy did not have that the weapon ready animation, but instead the relaxed standing there animation. The only exception I can see is something unique happening with an Initiative Check and lag.

Classic tactic is to come from behind, attack, then HIPS until the enemy relax animation happens (the music stops) then re-attack.

[Boddynock]

My point is I've never seen Death Attack give a Fort Save unless the enemy did not have that the weapon ready animation, but instead the relaxed standing there animation. The only exception I can see is something unique happening with an Initiative Check and lag.

Classic tactic is to come from behind, attack, then HIPS until the enemy relax animation happens (the music stops) then re-attack.

Ah, perhaps I misunderstood. It does, although perhaps not often. It isn't supposed too, but it does. Then again this game engine does a lot of things it isn't really supposed to do, doesn't it?

[chad878262]

Then again this game engine does a lot of things it isn't really supposed to do, doesn't it?

QFT.

My curiosity is peaked. If you run some tests in JEGS I'd be interested in what you find, Vogar. Not sure when I'll be in game this week, but I'll try testing death attack with an archer.

[Vogar Eol]

Probably the best way to think about this character type... is simply as an Assassin holding a bow. Not as an archer, per say.

When used in the past, I found the range Weapon adds a lot of survival to HIPS because of that damn cooldown timer. Done correctly, this should give either Four or Six fort saves from one HIPS. I think the BAB is high enough for Six, but I am not sure.

I am a little concerned about trying to push the Hide / MS high enough on this server though. I've heard the monsters can have very good Listen/Spot.... which is why I haven't played one here. Also, back when I was more active people use to look at something like a Death Attack, and then sick a Paladin on you....

Evil Paladins!

[chad878262]

With that DEX score and no feats you will need to ensure you have stealth gear in every slot...boots of elven kind, ring of hiding, assassin ring, gloves/cloak/belt/armor/hood of the stalker (or silent, your choice), greater cloaked amulet ...then eventually hell gear.

[Vogar Eol]

Hmmm... Wand of Dimension Door are cheap, right?

[chad878262]

Hmmm... Wand of Dimension Door are cheap, right?

One of the most expensive wands to craft because it's CL 17 (I think). 750x4x17= 51,000...

Regarding death attack, with rapid shot you get 7 APR = 3 death attack. Many shot only applies sneak / death attack to one shot. The only way to hit 4 death attacks is to get 10APR so you'll not get that many even with haste.

[Tsidkenu]

Dimension door wands are 36,000 (base cost) = CL 12. I made one for Aeili not too long ago (which I will probably never use).

[Vogar Eol]

Hmmm... Wand of Dimension Door are cheap, right?

One of the most expensive wands to craft because it's CL 17 (I think). 750x4x17= 51,000...

Regarding death attack, with rapid shot you get 7 APR = 3 death attack. Many shot only applies sneak / death attack to one shot. The only way to hit 4 death attacks is to get 10APR so you'll not get that many even with haste.

Many Shot treats Sneak Attack and Death Attack differently, unless it was modified here. If it gets 3 death attacks normally, it should double all those to 6 Fort saves. That's not just my previous experience, but confirmed on the wikia talk page.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack

I'll test it out later in Jeg's.

[Vogar Eol]

Chad, here is a similar concept build on the database. Look at some of the write-ups just to see what's happening.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?58430

[Tsidkenu]

I have non-assassin sneak archer build I tried on the server for a while.

Halfling Sniper

It was very fun to play and I only ever died once (to the HIPS ignoring wraith spiders in Durlag's) at level 21.

The build is let down by the fact that OOBI's capstone ability, Extended Sharpshooting, has been broken since OOBI was 'revamped' in the March Update last year.

RIP Acorn.

[Sun Wukong]

Just a random idea, but Barbarian's rage ability could be used to mee mighty properties on bows.

[chad878262]

Dimension door wands are 36,000 (base cost) = CL 12. I made one for Aeili not too long ago (which I will probably never use).

hmmm, wonder which wand I am thinking of. I know there was a custom wand I crafted (i.e. not in the wiki) that was over 50K...I thought it was this one. in any case, thanks for the correction Tsid.

Just a random idea, but Barbarian's rage ability could be used to mee mighty properties on bows.

Yeah, or a wand of rage... I've found one or two in dungeons so don't even necessarily have to get one crafted. Short duration, but if you are only using it as needed it could work.

Many Shot treats Sneak Attack and Death Attack differently, unless it was modified here. If it gets 3 death attacks normally, it should double all those to 6 Fort saves. That's not just my previous experience, but confirmed on the wikia talk page.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack

I'll test it out later in Jeg's.

Interesting, I honestly didn't know that! However, it also makes me think you should be going for more AB rather than higher DC's. As you say, 29 is still not all that high and I would think if it drops to say ~25 or 26, but gains you an equal amount of AB (plus has the added bonus of higher stealth) that is a fair trade. Much better to actually hit on all 6 of those Death Attacks and force 6 saves than to have a ~15-20% higher chance of success only when the enemy has fort saves of 27 or less.

As I said, even with a DC of 21 I had a pretty high rate of success in making statues.

[mrm3ntalist]

Assassin gets double the damage and double the save to paralysis. That is thebug some complain about.

Some comments aboutt the build:

I've found myself a +8 Mighty bow, but dumping everything into Dex it would be pretty useless.

- The bow you mentioned i assume is the normal version (+2EB, 8 Mighty 1d4Massive crits ). This is a total of 10 damage and +2AB. Compared with the epic bow in Avernus ( +4EB, 5Mighty, +1 cold damage +1-vs-elves ) that is 10 damage with +4AB instead of +2. Unless it is the epic version ( +4EB, +8Mighty, +2d6 Massive criticals ) which then changes things. With the above in mind, it is very safe to lower STR.

- If you do decide to take ranger, then i suggest investing more. The active tracking is very useful. I take ranger on archers just for this. You will also get to pick 3 Favored Enemies which will give +3 damage against those enemies. On top of that you get evasion which is a good feat to shrug off damage from traps or reflex save spells.

With the above in mind i would suggest a build with the split Ranger11/Assassin8/AA7/F4 or Ranger13/A8/AA5/F4 if the camouflage feat ( run in hips when outdoors ) interests you.

It doesnt lose much in damage ( you lose 1damage from AA and 4 from fighter if you go the full 12 levels - none otherwise ) but you get 3 damage against the FEs. On top of that you get tracking which is great for any character to know which way to go and evasion - the best defensive feat for me. Tha AB loss is not as critical while the extra skill points ( invest some in heal to use healkits more fficiently while ins tealth ) are also a plus.

If you do plan to go for more STR, then go for Ranger21/Assassin9. Bane of Enemies and high damage from STR deals a lot of damage ( at the same level of your build ) without the range requirement. In order for the SA to happen, you need to be close to the enemy. On the contrary with high damage ranger you can snipe them from the distance and kill them before they get close to you. And if they do hips and manyshot again for the maximum damage output.