Undead summons need revamped (pun)

[ohboy007]

Yeah, the horned devil is better than a PM 10 summon? It is possibly better than the CGU vampire warrior which only lasts 1 rd per level? Or did they change it back to 2 RDS per level? I remember a time when they actually tried having it last like a turn per level, and then it was nerfed to 2rds per level, and then nerfed back to 1 rd per level. But this horned devil has better immunities and a slightly smaller AB than a fully buffed vamp warrior. Necromancers and Palemasters are not feeling the love bro.

But is this a thing the Dev team is aware of or concerned about? I almost want to pick up a horned devil myself, the CGU spell I always thought was weird. Undead "summons" are more permanent henchmen and don't just pop out of thin air and vanish after a few minutes. Can we get a reconsideration of the duration of CGU improve the PM summons?

[metaquad4]

The PM 10 summon is very much lackluster, yes, that has been brought up before. But, several QC members seem to insist it is awesome. So, there is not much that can be done on that front.

As for the Gate Summon, it does last a shorter time and it lacks undead immunities. I'd say the vampire warrior is better, since you can lay down buffs like Keen Weapon and Greater Magic weapon on it. As well, you can heal it with negative energy burst (can't heal with ray anymore, since it doesn't target allies it seems). Negative energy burst is decent for harming hostiles too, since it decreases STR, so its an all around alright combo.

I do think PM 10 should have a vampire warrior, but other than that, the undead summons are alright imo.

[Blackman D]

almost all the undead summons have already been updated along with some PrC summons

they will be turned in after i finish negative plane avatar

[Nachti]

Horned Devil will be moved to the gate spell. It really was too powerful for level 8.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

You should have seen the revenant spell. Tier 4 divine spell that summoned a level 4 paladin that could cast greater restore, storm of vengeance, etc etc etc. Basically a level 7 cleric could summon a level (15?) caster. It was taken away though.

As for the PM undead summon I never thought it was weak. At level 15 I could buff it and solo epic content easily enough. Maybe the problem is there are other overpowered summons that need a nerf or something? Oh and BTW maybe if horned devil is really powerful good guys can get a powerful summon before bad guys get a 2nd one? Just food for thought.

[Blackman D]

are there still issues with revenant? it came up on QC needing nerf but cant remember what happened with it

and undead are inherently strong because of the properties and vampires more so because of the regen, but there were issues with them since they were never completed

[Valefort]

Revenant was restricted to paladin and blackguard so everything is fine.

[ohboy007]

I saw a fully buffed devil beat the snot out of a PM fully buffed vamp. So, yes the horned devil is better. There is really no dispute there. If you don't think so, test it yourself. The horned devil will KD the vampire and keep beating it to death. That makes it better if it is being moved to level 9. I am just saying when you make a new summon, you have to think how effective is this summon to other summons. Balance gets really thrown off when you create a summon that is better than classes who devote their whole lives toward summons/create undead. The CGU vampire is more powerful than the PM vampire. That is another non disputable fact. If you don't believe it, buff them up and fight them in a test area. The warrior will demolish the PM gimped summon. If that seems like balance, not sure what is justifying that.

At least I know now to go ahead and grab the CGU spell instead of the GPB spell.