Help with a Katana wielding Phantom

[Sun Wukong]

my only suggestion would be if you are starting at level 1 new. and you choose a multi class with fighter. take the fighter at the first level. the armor restrictions early on the phantom make playing this VERY HARD at levels 1-2. you could try to spend your first level in the city doing quests, but fighting is faster.

the better build is the phantom/SD build personally. i think this is probably the best build for the phantom platform.

Actually, I always do the low level quests first. Farmlands: I talk to the two farmers for Haystack and Rat. Then go to the docks, grab the stole goods, deliveries, pirate crew, iron for iron, go palace district and get the stolen bracelet quest... and then to eastern baldur's gate to get most of the needed quest updates. I think those quests are about enough to get you to half way to level 3 or something.

And depending on your build, fighting at level 1 can be a hard task.

But anyhow, as for the build I wrote down, you will not be able to use your Ki Powers, but nothing is actually stopping you from simply making use of armor and shield as you level up. In that way, you can get a whole lot more AC and surviavability... with the potential to do well and a lot of different things out of armor.

Moreover, if you got some friends to level up with you, your two-handed 26 BAB sneak attacks from flanking can be just truly devastating.

[aaron22]

you have no armor proficiencies from. you are restricted to no armor. that is why it is tough. 6 hp's and like 10-12 ac is a crazy bad combo. you might get more or less depending upon build but might be needing the ma and bark pots. or learn to kite like a son of a gun. i was killed a bunch just from lucky range shots. the computer gets lucky alot

[chad878262]

you have no armor proficiencies from. you are restricted to no armor. that is why it is tough. 6 hp's and like 10-12 ac is a crazy bad combo. you might get more or less depending upon build but might be needing the ma and bark pots. or learn to kite like a son of a gun. i was killed a bunch just from lucky range shots. the computer gets lucky alot

Why would you have 10-12 AC? 14 DEX and WIS will give you 14, and I would hope one of those two is 16 giving you 15 AC. 150 gp for a potion of Mage Armor and Barkskin increases that to 22 which is more than enough for graveyard and bandits until you get a few levels and a bit of gold. I forget if Phantom gets +1 AC early on or only at 10/20/30, but even if they don't 22 AC is enough to carry you. Later when you start going to kobold ruins you may want to add a few shield potions for emergencies, but by then you should have enough stealth to pick your targets and use corners to be more survivable as well.

[aaron22]

i was meaning 10-12 above natural 10. i did not make that clear sorry. that is 10+4(barkskin) +4(mage armor) +2/3/4(dex14/16/18). that is where i came up with that number. LOH would grant another one and if wis bonuses if any. i had a difficult time with it. seems like it would be alright and maybe i was unlucky and mobs rolled wild on my ass. but i got oneshot so many times. and not by criticals always either.

[chad878262]

Ah, gotcha. That is where WIS comes in for a Phantom. A typical Rogue with leather armor vs. a Phantom with 14 WIS is going to have the same starting AC. You may have been unlucky or you may have been going to quickly, not sure... With any stealth build I'd spend more time in the bandit cave then the graveyard so that you get some chances to land sneak attacks. That said, if having trouble just drop the 150 gold for a potion of shield. It only lasts 5 minutes, but with the +11 AC from Mage Armor/Barkskin/Shield you should be pretty much invulnerable for that 5 minutes at low levels. In any case, the other option is you take Phantom at 1, then if you are planning to go Fighter anyway you take Fighter at 2. You can get to 2nd level with zero combat anyway, so there is no reason to go Fighter at 1 and lose those 16 skill points.

I would still recommend P25/SD5 as it is the only way to get Epic Dodge. Epic Dodge, HiPS and Expose Weakness will put you somewhere near what a Rogue 16/A9/IB5 can do 13d6 sneak dice, HiPS and about the same AC.

[metaquad4]

I did a similar build with Kaedrin's Ninja. Its not the greatest, but it works. Unfortunately, this build used assassin and 4 RDD. But, we can compensate.

I'd suggest Phantom 16/Shadowdancer 3/8 Fighter/3 Bodyguard might work. I'll build it later, if you need me to. It'll be worse than if you went a sneak attack dual-wielding route, but it'll do well enough. Its not a powerbuild but its not weak either.

[aaron22]

i did a high int phantom 16/swash 5/sin 9. it had the xp penalty, but i liked the extra damage. the P25/SD5 with epic dodge is better. this one worked better for what i was wanting to do though.

[metaquad4]

That one sounds fun, too. Quite fun, actually. Could you send me that, if you have it built?

[aaron22]

not sure you meant me, but in case...
http://nwn2db.com/build/?254721

edit: the order and feats are set like they are because of a specific development in her RP she is going to move through. the progression will all be part of the story.

[chad878262]

We don't have Battle Dancer on BG. Is that a stand-in for something else, Aaron?

Also, how'd this do with no HiPS and no Feint? Were you able to adequately use corners for hiding without having a higher speed?

Just wondering about the experience of a high sneak attack build that doesn't have a reliable way to land the attacks.

[aaron22]

i do not recall what i put there instead of Battle dancer. i had hips at level 15 and used the phantom step alot until then and after when cooldown was ticking. i had some feat/skill gear i twinked onto her that made her better too.

she is very good in combat yes. landed sin strikes often.

[chad878262]

Gotcha, HiPS at 15 is not too bad, I don't know why I thought it was later (must not have looked at the level plan very carefully! )

[aaron22]

You could manage that build a bit to get epic precision out of it. Take off an int and a con. Put another on Dex. Move sin 9 to 30. Take ce at 6. Move up all the epic feats and take precision at 29.

[redwood]

Thanks for the replies, a lot of good ideas in here. I forgot to specify, I'd prefer to RP a human. With that being said, it looks like a katana wielding phantom isn't very viable. I really like the ideas Comments Only suggested, as well as the rest. I'm not sure I'm going to try a katana wielding phantom anymore. I appreciate the help. Maybe someone will figure something better out with the ideas being tossed around so far.

[chad878262]

The issue is simply that sneak attack builds are better with two weapon fighting finesse weapons. Anything else is going to be difficult to make viable because your damage is so tied to landing as many sneak attacks as possible. 4-6 attacks per round=2 sneak attacks. 7-9 APR=3 sneak attacks and 10-12= 4 sneak attacks. In order to get PTWF you need 25 DEX, which means you really need your attack bonus to be based on DEX. So for katana you need STR in order to have decent AB and that precludes reaching 10 APR, this you're losing sneak attacks.