Help with a Katana wielding Phantom

[redwood]

That makes complete sense.

[Sun Wukong]

The issue is simply that sneak attack builds are better with two weapon fighting finesse weapons. Anything else is going to be difficult to make viable because your damage is so tied to landing as many sneak attacks as possible. 4-6 attacks per round=2 sneak attacks. 7-9 APR=3 sneak attacks and 10-12= 4 sneak attacks. In order to get PTWF you need 25 DEX, which means you really need your attack bonus to be based on DEX. So for katana you need STR in order to have decent AB and that precludes reaching 10 APR, this you're losing sneak attacks.

That said, it could be possible to make a strength based Fighter 14/Rogue 16 that uses Feint and flanking to deliver those sneak attacks. You will have high strength, fighter weapon focus and specialization feats, and you could easily have fullplate and a towershield to boost your AC.

Moreover, you could change the build to Fighter 12/Rogue 14/Blackguard 4 and boost your damage with Epic Divine Might and add your charisma modifier to your saves, on top your charisma also boosting your ability to Feint.

I suppose the only reason why these builds are not suggested more often is because people just really, really prefer their sneaks.

Oh and, on one the previous pages, Ghost-faced killer was brought up. I think it is from the same sourcebook as the 'phantom' class and I think it is able to use its slightly more limited number of Ghost Steps even when in full armor. Thus a Fighter/Blackguard/Ghostfaced killer can be more than interesting build to use.

[redwood]

The issue is simply that sneak attack builds are better with two weapon fighting finesse weapons. Anything else is going to be difficult to make viable because your damage is so tied to landing as many sneak attacks as possible. 4-6 attacks per round=2 sneak attacks. 7-9 APR=3 sneak attacks and 10-12= 4 sneak attacks. In order to get PTWF you need 25 DEX, which means you really need your attack bonus to be based on DEX. So for katana you need STR in order to have decent AB and that precludes reaching 10 APR, this you're losing sneak attacks.

That said, it could be possible to make a strength based Fighter 14/Rogue 16 that uses Feint and flanking to deliver those sneak attacks. You will have high strength, fighter weapon focus and specialization feats, and you could easily have fullplate and a towershield to boost your AC.

Moreover, you could change the build to Fighter 12/Rogue 14/Blackguard 4 and boost your damage with Epic Divine Might and add your charisma modifier to your saves, on top your charisma also boosting your ability to Feint.

I suppose the only reason why these builds are not suggested more often is because people just really, really prefer their sneaks.

Oh and, on one the previous pages, Ghost-faced killer was brought up. I think it is from the same sourcebook as the 'phantom' class and I think it is able to use its slightly more limited number of Ghost Steps even when in full armor. Thus a Fighter/Blackguard/Ghostfaced killer can be more than interesting build to use.

Those builds sounds interesting. I don't think I could RP a blackguard or a ghost-faced killer right now since I haven't played in awhile. The strength base fighter/rogue sounds cool. I would like to know more.

[Invoker]

Oh and, on one the previous pages, Ghost-faced killer was brought up. I think it is from the same sourcebook as the 'phantom' class and I think it is able to use its slightly more limited number of Ghost Steps even when in full armor. Thus a Fighter/Blackguard/Ghostfaced killer can be more than interesting build to use.

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind when I suggested it: the RP should be comparable, and the build overall solid.

If OP is looking into a Katana wielder at all costs, dual-wielding STR Dervish with Exotic Weapon Proficiency might also be a good idea.

[chad878262]

Phantom 16/Dervish 10/Tempest 4 might be fun, but it will be exceedingly feat starved. As a bonus you can leave your DEX at 17 and still get Greater TWF. It will be really feat starved, but being human or Strongheart Halfling is required. You need 7 feats to qualify for both classes (Dodge, Weapon Focus (slashing) and Combat Expertise for Dervish and then Mobility, Spring Attack, TWF and ITWF for Tempest). This means that without the bonus feat at 1st level you can't qualify before your feat at 18, therefore you fail to meet the 3by20 rule. However, if you're interested in dual wielding Katana's this will work. BAB26 means it will have 9 APR from GTWF, so under haste you'll hit 10 APR for the 4th sneak attack. In addition, you'll have +5 AC from the two classes.

The downside is you need to pump STR so you will either need to dump INT or WIS (or leave them both around 10). If you can at least get WIS to 11 you can eventually use a +3 DEX item and +3 WIS item which will give you +7 to your AC. This in addition to +1 AC From Phantom 10 and +5 AC From Dervish/Tempest makes your AC in no armor about the same as someone wearing Mithral Full Plate with 16 DEX. You will of course want to have the best AC Equipment as far as +4 Natural/Armor/Dodge/Deflection as well as a shield wand and IMA wand for when you need more AC.

Downside will be against crit immunes with DR vs. Slashing, but since you reach 16 phantom you can still get Epic Precision (and you should).

[Invoker]

Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of Rogue5/Assassin10/Dervish10/GT5.

Good dmg because it's a STR build with dual Katanas and reliable 5d6 DA since you have HiPS (you can add 2d6 from Thousand Cuts when needed), decent HP for a Rogue, AC comfortably over 50, no AB issue (it's a STR build with HiPS, even Monkey Grip won't be a problem).

You don't have the usual Rogue goodies (Epic Precision, Epic Dodge...), but you need none of them. In exchange, you get a very solid character overall, which can live through a boss fight even without stealth.

[dzidek1983]

Nice split but i thought he wanted a Phantom???

[Invoker]

Nice split but i thought he wanted a Phantom???

He wanted a Phantom with Katanas. We established that's got a pretty bad synergy.

I suggested a Phantom build (without Katanas), a Phantom-like build with Katanas (Ghost-faced Killer) and now a build with Katanas.

[dzidek1983]

But what's preventing the Phantom to use katanas, it's not a DEX class like rogue, his stealth is not from skills.

[Valefort]

You can also play something like that, even if the synergies are not perfect http://nwn2db.com/build/?259403

[Sun Wukong]

Those builds sounds interesting. I don't think I could RP a blackguard or a ghost-faced killer right now since I haven't played in awhile. The strength base fighter/rogue sounds cool. I would like to know more.

Alright, I did a build search for 'Fighter 14' and 'Rogue 16' - these are the builds that came up:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?62013
http://nwn2db.com/build/?233565
http://nwn2db.com/build/?202574
http://nwn2db.com/build/?175712
http://nwn2db.com/build/?144691
http://nwn2db.com/build/?141844

None of them is exactly what I had in my mind, but those should be some food for thought. Disarm for example is kind of dodgy choice, and any feinter would want to have the following feats: Silver Palm (Level 1 Only), Tale Teller (Level 1 'local history trait'), Skill Focus Bluff (On regular level up), Negotiator (On Regular level up), and then head to the Seven Sun's Merchant building to buy as many Bluff items as you can. (And later do the same with Avernus.) You need to invest in bluff, because feint is still countered with BAB + Spot instead of Sense Motive.

I have no idea if that 'Shield Slam' in one of the builds can used to trigger additional sneak attacks. I recall that the 'Free for all' feat called Pommel Strike did do the same, but I have not used it for a while and between that time Valefort did break and fix it - so I have no idea where it currently stands.

Then, if you take your levels rogue-fighter-rogue-fighter, depending on your intelligence it is possible to save up the extra fighter skill points to be spent on a rogue level - hence no need for Able Learner....

[redwood]

Thanks again everyone for all the input. I finally rolled a phantom and I've been following the build Chad suggested. Wanted to give my gratitude. It's a fun build. I appreciate all the help offered.