Dual wielding Weapon Master.

[elsteveo]

Hi Guys looking to build the above I have a good back story idea and would like some suggestions for the mechanical side.

Here is a quick cast at it. It's a dex build but I am interested more interested in a strength based one as it goes better with the RP.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?262797

Does anyone have a build they could recommend.

Another note the RP could lend itself to a divine caster type if that could be incorporated too.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[chad878262]

off the top without looking at feats you are better off with another class of either 3 or 5 levels. For instance, F20/Bodyguard3/WM7 or F18/WM7/FB5. Or you could go F14/R4/WM7/FB5. I will look in to the build in more depth later, but just off the top Fighter ending on an odd level in general is evidence the build is not correct/optimized and can be much better. Even F22/WM8 would at least gain a use of ki strike, whereas F23 gains nothing.

[Sun Wukong]

You will not get Perfect Two-Weapon fighting, but you can get Greater Two-Weapon Fighting with just 17 dexterity if you go for Tempest PRC. It shares a lot of requirements with your Weapon Master PRC.

So, Fighter 18/Tempest 5/Weapon Master 7 is one possibility and you could make it a strength based build, which opens up dual wielding with scimitars and power attack.

If you want to mix in Frenzied Berserker, it is a possibility too, although I would be going for full ten levels of it. Fighter 8/Tempest 5/Weapon Master 7/Frenzied Berserker 10. The reason why is simply because of Supreme Power Attack, the blades on your both hands would get +6 damage from Power Attack and +12 from Improved Power Attack. (But you can settle down for just five levels, +5 damage from power attack, and +10 from Improved Power Attack).

[chad878262]

Here is one example you could go with:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?262859

Gets better saves and utilizes some key feats available on the server. For example blinding speed is 4/day 1 minute haste, Melee Weapon Mastery - Slashing will give you +2 hit/damage and Weapon Supremacy is +1 AB and Dodge AC (equivalent of Epic Prowess + Armor Skin).

Divine Champion gives better saves and Steadfast ensures you won't fail on a 1. Bonus points because you won't be using Expose Weakness Cheese.

[Side]

I'm actually playing a f/wm/fb/tempest right now. I've found it hard to juggle defense, saves, and damage, and while I think I've personally found a good middle ground I think it left me subpar in all three. If you end up trying a strength based version with dual wielding I would highly suggest seeing if a race with a bonus to dexterity could fit your RP.

You're going to be pretty tight on feats, and by pretty tight I mean practically no room for flavor feats, but if all that is fine it's a solid, late blooming build. That said I personally would not suggest maxing out frenzied berzerker levels, you're going to need all the extra fighter feats you can get.

[chad878262]

I'm actually playing a f/wm/fb/tempest right now. I've found it hard to juggle defense, saves, and damage, and while I think I've personally found a good middle ground I think it left me subpar in all three. If you end up trying a strength based version with dual wielding I would highly suggest seeing if a race with a bonus to dexterity could fit your RP.

You're going to be pretty tight on feats, and by pretty tight I mean practically no room for flavor feats, but if all that is fine it's a solid, late blooming build. That said I personally would not suggest maxing out frenzied berzerker levels, you're going to need all the extra fighter feats you can get.

The answer for most of us that don't have gear with +4 AC/+3 saves or what not is generally to carry around extra gear sets. You should absolutely have +4 Armor/Natural/Deflection/Dodge as your base gear, but you should also have items to boost saves and/or spell resistance when needed. 28 SR amulet or the cloak with 32 is huge, just to switch out when your having casters for instance. This can of course be made easier with UMD, but us not required to be viable.

[Side]

The answer for most of us that don't have gear with +4 AC/+3 saves or what not is generally to carry around extra gear sets. You should absolutely have +4 Armor/Natural/Deflection/Dodge as your base gear, but you should also have items to boost saves and/or spell resistance when needed. 28 SR amulet or the cloak with 32 is huge, just to switch out when your having casters for instance. This can of course be made easier with UMD, but us not required to be viable.

That definitely helps, but with too many ideas in a build you can spread yourself so thin that swapping around high quality gear is needed just to stay on par with what others can do passively, with very little advantage to show for it. The f/wm/fb/tempest is already spread pretty thin just from it's requirements, so it's pretty easy to do more harm to yourself with it than good.

[chad878262]

Yeah, FB doesn't have much synergy with a dual welder, would be better with dervish... Fighter12/WM7/T5/D6 would work well. Could drop fighter to 8 and raise dervish to 10, but would be giving up 6 point of always on damage for 2d6 limited use damage (bad trade imo).

[elsteveo]

Here is one example you could go with:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?262859

Gets better saves and utilizes some key feats available on the server. For example blinding speed is 4/day 1 minute haste, Melee Weapon Mastery - Slashing will give you +2 hit/damage and Weapon Supremacy is +1 AB and Dodge AC (equivalent of Epic Prowess + Armor Skin).

Divine Champion gives better saves and Steadfast ensures you won't fail on a 1. Bonus points because you won't be using Expose Weakness Cheese.

Thanks Chad I like this one.
Being a Dex fighter where does the damage side of the equation come from?
Also how does AC work in this case I guess you get some from the Dex bonus and tumble but i guess you don't get much from Armour?
Please excuse my ignorance!

[chad878262]

Damage suffers on any DEX builds with no sneak damage, but epic specialization + melee mastery=+8 damage per hit. You just need bonus damage on your hand axes and you'll be ok mostly. DR enemies will give you fits though.

[Lockonnow]

well the best you can do is lvl 3 rogue lvl 7 and the rest fighter levels why couse you need to hit every time you try

[Sun Wukong]

Damage suffers on any DEX builds with no sneak damage, but epic specialization + melee mastery=+8 damage per hit. You just need bonus damage on your hand axes and you'll be ok mostly. DR enemies will give you fits though.

You can run into regular mobs that have DR of 10 or even 20 on monsters that are immune to critical hits. So let us look at the damage side of things on that Chad's build: 1d6 (Handaxe) +8 (Feats) +4 (EB) + 3 (Strength modifier) = 18,5~

So yeah, I can see why DR enemies would give you fits of rage.

And Side has a point there... about the FB...





So how about a Fighter 12/Tempest 5/Dervish 10/"Something else 3" - or just Fighter 15/Tempest 5/Dervish 10. Together Tempest and Dervish give you +5 AC, which means that you got a +3 Heavy Shield and you could get that wand of Shield on top of that, not to mention of making use of Combat Expertise.

Then you could go for that Strength based build so that the above damage reductions are less of a hassle.
1d6 (Handaxe) + 4 (EB) + 8 (Fighter feats) + 10 (Strength modifier) + (5 Dervish dance) +2d6 (Thousand Cuts) = 37,5~ (Off hand attacks would be 32,5~)

With ten levels of Dervish you get five uses of Dervish dance that can last up to two minutes each. Even with epic rest timers, it is enough to run around in an area and then head to rest once you run out of your dances.

Moreover, Thousand cuts is not a once a day thing anymore. On this server, you get three uses a day and each lasts for 5 rounds.

Thus, it would be a crime to not take all ten levels of Dervish... Basically, if you think about it, there is not much that a Fighter/Dervish/Tempest lacks. It has high AB, AC, and the saves aren't that bad to be honest.

[Sun Wukong]

Here are some Fighter/Dervish/Tempest builds to get the gist of things:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?94008
http://nwn2db.com/build/?204594
http://nwn2db.com/build/?191781
http://nwn2db.com/build/?245441
http://nwn2db.com/build/?241707

I would try to get the Tempest and Dervish levels ASAP...

[AC81]

F12/Ranger6/T5/WM7.

Works pretty well. Pick scimitars and oversized TWF. Pump str after you've hit all other basic requirements.

[dzidek1983]

I always thought that a TWF WM should use things like kukri to optimize his Crit range, he takes dmg from crits alone, but the problem with those builds on BG server was that in campaign game the power came from the weapons he used, you cant have +8 kukri with additional +2d6 fire dmg. This is what suc build need.

Here you need to stack additional dmg that comes from feats and class and racial bonuses.

Going FB is one way, but personally i would concentrate on the AC first. Tempest is a must, Gives you TWF feats, dmg, AB and AC iirc.
Did you try charging? Dire charge adds 1d8 dmg to each hit.

4 levels of AK is also nice, you get Blindfight, Toughness and another 1d4 DMG bonus. - (seriously who is not using that class here???)