Ideas to help new players settle on BG

[chad878262]

suppose we could ask the devs if it is possible to only spawn rats, no bosses and all chests only give empty wine bottles unless in a party of two or more...of course then looters would OOC'ly group up with each other and do the same thing, probably avoiding RP with anyone they happen across. I must just get lucky because I rarely see a player run by that completely ignores any attempt to RP. It happens occasionally, but I wouldn't say it's prevalent.

[Rhifox]

Or just add the cap back. There was no reason for it to be removed in the first place, and it did its job wonderfully when we had it.

I'd also say put a level cap on more quests as well, and add some more epic level ones for higher levels to take instead.

[chad878262]

I'd also say put a level cap on more of those quests as well, and add some more epic level ones for higher levels to take instead.

This is one option, but one I would prefer we don't do. Questing is a bigger culprit to non-RP grinding then looting or at least as big. Quests are fun the first few times, after that the majority run through them as fast as humanly possible, often invisible and hasted for 90% of the time. If the goal is to get more players to spend their time RP'ing adding new quests is not the way to do it.

[Rhifox]

Then just put a cap on them and don't add higher level ones. The main point of that suggestion was to get higher levels out of lower level dungeons.

More fishing type activities would be a much better alternative, in my book. That actually encourages RP. Just there needs to be more options for people that don't want to RP fishing addicts. There should be stuff like training on training dummies, studying in libraries, and so on. Many options for many different types of characters, allowing people to get non-combat exp without quests.

Honestly, you could make some that give gold, too. Profession skills!

[Sun Wukong]

I'd also say put a level cap on more of those quests as well, and add some more epic level ones for higher levels to take instead.

This is one option, but one I would prefer we don't do. Questing is a bigger culprit to non-RP grinding then looting or at least as big. Quests are fun the first few times, after that the majority run through them as fast as humanly possible, often invisible and hasted for 90% of the time. If the goal is to get more players to spend their time RP'ing adding new quests is not the way to do it.

And why is questing such a big culprit to non-RP grinding? Well, if your build is less than optimal, if you lack the equipment, or just the key perk that makes it tick like a Swiss clock, then once a week and in just two hours you can get 6,800+ Experience points. And the big thing is, you can remain relatively AFK while doing it.

That is a massive amount of experience, especially if you can only get that previously mentioned '10 exp per kill' and lack the ability to kill large number of said creatures in a few mouse clicks. It doesn't matter how monotonous the quest grind is, or how many transitions you have to wait while the server is at full capacity, it just gives the best end result with this simple real life formula: "experience earned/time spent".

Thus, if you really want to make quests grinding far less important, go and have look at the script that determines the experience you get, put brackets around it and multiply it with 5.

"( The Current EXP Script ) * 5"

This change would actually make it worthwile to take risks and people would level up faster. Although, some people would go to the Hilltop ruins to gather a bunch of kobolds just to Fireburst them for the '5 experience points' per kill.

[Sun Wukong]

Was in a dungeon, got a drive-by-killing-of-mobs by a certain PC, and tried to IC RP. Was ignored. Contacted the Player OOC—who by the way IS NOT a newbie—and had unproductive chat.

Whenever it comes to those case of 'drive-by-killing-of-mobs', those usually happen so fast that even if someone tries to type out something, the culprits are already too far ahead to ever see a single line of it pop up.

[Vogar Eol]

...It doesn't matter how monotonous the quest grind is, or how many transitions you have to wait while the server is at full capacity, it just gives the best end result with this simple real life formula: "experience earned/time spent".

Thus, if you really want to make quests grinding far less important, go and have look at the script that determines the experience you get, put brackets around it and multiply it with 5.

"( The Current EXP Script ) * 5"

This change would actually make it worthwile to take risks and people would level up faster....

I completely and utterly hate the weekly quests. I understand why they exist, and how they especially help less combat effective characters... or risk averse players. I still utterly hate them.

I use to run them years ago, semi-casually. That was when transitioning was much quicker, and we had fewer high level areas to "grind". Now, I really can't justify any excuse to run back and forth, back and forth, back and forth... even with my access to Teleport. It's painful, and goes against everything that would motivate my character. It is a terribly OOC mechanism for a roleplay server.

The only quests I like are ones like the Trollhide quests, or the Gibberling Heart in the altar of Malar. In my eyes, those reward characters who go out and fight in the areas. Characters doing what adventurers should do. If more high level areas had item drops for mass turn-ins, I'd enjoy it. Gold or XP? Make each areas creature drops different.

------

...or simply up the incentive to go places and fight. Like Comments Only said, the XP of many areas is pitiful. Solo an epic black dragon at level 19? Here's your 200xp, a spoon, and a burning stick. Help two halflings find their house key? Here's your 850xp.

Which would you prioritize?

[Hrafnar]

...or simply up the inventive to go places and fight. Like Comments Only said, the XP of many areas is pitiful. Solo an epic black dragon at level 19? Here's your 200xp, a spoon, and a burning stick. Help two halflings find their house key? Here's your 850xp.

Which would you prioritize?

*Claps*

Is it possible to have a higher xp rate, but more diminishing returns as your level increases? Also level cap on chests sounds like a good idea, imho. I've bumped into epics several times while going through kobolds/gibbers with my level 6. Not a problem per se but a bit awkward.

[Vogar Eol]

Remember that diminishing returns are built into leveling by the increased XP requirement per level. There is no reason that a constant and fluid XP per average kill at appropriate CR shouldn't be provided.

The key here is the CR. You shouldn't be able to fluidly get the same XP per kill from Xvarts from level 10 till level 20, for example.

[Sun Wukong]

...or simply up the inventive to go places and fight. Like Comments Only said, the XP of many areas is pitiful. Solo an epic black dragon at level 19? Here's your 200xp, a spoon, and a burning stick. Help two halflings find their house key? Here's your 850xp.

Which would you prioritize?

And as for those who cannot solo the dragon at level 19, or find a party to do it with, well, if they do come back to it a few levels later... The dragon gives you something like 47 experience points or much less...

So imagine if the mobs actually gave that five times more experience, reaching level 30 would become a far more realistic goal. The people who grind would reach level 30 as they already do, and since there is no more grinding for them to do, what else is there to do but start role-playing and get involved?

Or what of those who really loathe grinding? Every little bit they do would stack up, party for a bit and instead of getting a tenth closer to next level - they could suddenly be half a level away from leveling up.

And if you have kept your eyes and ears open, there is clear and open feelings of contention among the playerbase here - simply becauase leveling up is such a boring task. Some can take it as a hurdle to overcome, while others cannot, and as a result for years this server has faced complaints about grinders reaching level 30 while others have been stuck around the same level for the past two years.

You know, even the whole RCR mechanic was actually made simply because leveling up just plain old sucks.

So would there be any actual downside to upping the experience gained? Bunch of more epics? Well, if you have not noticed already, the server is already full of them. What, you struggled to get to level 30 and so should everyone else? Well, start a new character from scratch and you too can enjoy the faster leveling!

[chad878262]

I'd also say put a level cap on more of those quests as well, and add some more epic level ones for higher levels to take instead.

This is one option, but one I would prefer we don't do. Questing is a bigger culprit to non-RP grinding then looting or at least as big. Quests are fun the first few times, after that the majority run through them as fast as humanly possible, often invisible and hasted for 90% of the time. If the goal is to get more players to spend their time RP'ing adding new quests is not the way to do it.

And why is questing such a big culprit to non-RP grinding? Well, if your build is less than optimal, if you lack the equipment, or just the key perk that makes it tick like a Swiss clock, then once a week and in just two hours you can get 6,800+ Experience points. And the big thing is, you can remain relatively AFK while doing it.

That is a massive amount of experience, especially if you can only get that previously mentioned '10 exp per kill' and lack the ability to kill large number of said creatures in a few mouse clicks. It doesn't matter how monotonous the quest grind is, or how many transitions you have to wait while the server is at full capacity, it just gives the best end result with this simple real life formula: "experience earned/time spent".

Thus, if you really want to make quests grinding far less important, go and have look at the script that determines the experience you get, put brackets around it and multiply it with 5.

"( The Current EXP Script ) * 5"

This change would actually make it worthwile to take risks and people would level up faster. Although, some people would go to the Hilltop ruins to gather a bunch of kobolds just to Fireburst them for the '5 experience points' per kill.

To answer your question... The reason is because, as you said, you can run around basically AFK (though on the surface you can actually get over 10K XP in about 3 1/2 hours so your numbers are a bit low). Running around AFK/OOC'ly is not RP'ing and many players, if presented by another player with an RP opportunity will just keep running on their merry way because they are just trying to get their 10K in weekly XP fix as quick as possible. Some players even log off on PC after they finish questing and start on another.

Is this a bad thing? In my opinion no, but if the answer to increasing RP or helping new players is to add MORE quests for players to sink time in to instead of RP then I have to respectfully disagree as to the viability of that approach.

As I have stated in the past. Grinders are GOING TO GRIND, Looters are GOING TO LOOT. The key is to present players with an incentive for doing what you want for the overall good of the server, it is not (IMO) a good policy to PUNISH a style of play as BG has always stated we support multiple styles, so long as they are within server rules.

Implementing party loot chests was meant to encourage folks to group up and not solo loot so that there could be adventure RP mixed in with the looting. I feel that was successful, many players that used to only solo are now much more willing to group and even seek it out. By the same token, if you want to encourage RP there has to be an incentive to do so. Someone made a comment I read earlier, but can't find now (I think it was metaquad, but I might be wrong...sorry). It was something to the effect of uncapped RP XP and every time you earn RP XP an equal amount goes in to a bank which is then granted to the character as they kill monsters by doubling the XP earned until the bank is empty. I think this is a great idea, so long as there is something in place to prevent exploits. It the very similar to an idea many have posted in the past to make quests optional and give players the ability to earn the same XP out adventuring, or RP'ing. Point is that it would not punish players if they WANT to quest, but it would provide incentive to earn that XP roleplaying, adventuring, etc.

[Vartigy]

...or simply up the inventive to go places and fight. Like Comments Only said, the XP of many areas is pitiful. Solo an epic black dragon at level 19? Here's your 200xp, a spoon, and a burning stick. Help two halflings find their house key? Here's your 850xp.

Which would you prioritize?

And as for those who cannot solo the dragon at level 19, or find a party to do it with, well, if they do come back to it a few levels later... The dragon gives you something like 47 experience points or much less...

So imagine if the mobs actually gave that five times more experience, reaching level 30 would become a far more realistic goal. The people who grind would reach level 30 as they already do, and since there is no more grinding for them to do, what else is there to do but start role-playing and get involved?

Or what of those who really loathe grinding? Every little bit they do would stack up, party for a bit and instead of getting a tenth closer to next level - they could suddenly be half a level away from leveling up.

And if you have kept your eyes and ears open, there is clear and open feelings of contention among the playerbase here - simply becauase leveling up is such a boring task. Some can take it as a hurdle to overcome, while others cannot, and as a result for years this server has faced complaints about grinders reaching level 30 while others have been stuck around the same level for the past two years.

You know, even the whole RCR mechanic was actually made simply because leveling up just plain old sucks.

So would there be any actual downside to upping the experience gained? Bunch of more epics? Well, if you have not noticed already, the server is already full of them. What, you struggled to get to level 30 and so should everyone else? Well, start a new character from scratch and you too can enjoy the faster leveling!

*Thumbs up* +1 +1

Alot of us play the game for a variety of reasons. But I imagine, most of us play to have some fun. Many of us are time restricted now in comparison to perhaps when we first picked up DnD/BG/NWN/Online RP all those years ago.
So some of us probably have an hour at a time to get in, get our kicks (in whatever manner that comes to us) then get out to attend the most recent disaster to befall our household or Reallife that needs attending. If you can string more than a few hours together, awesome, I'm in envy
But some of us don't have the luxury to bum around a tavern for an hour, twiddling thumbs and 'beating around the bush' trying to influence people to come adventuring. AND THEN spend another hour or two adventuring. Only to have to say "sorry, RL calls, gotta log" just at the entrance to the main adventure area, before combat even starts. I've lost count how many times that's happened to me. But I keep persisting with RP setup with other players anyway, full well knowing of the risk of this happening to me, because I love the aspect of RP adventuring with others so much.


I guess what I'm trying to say is. Try not to judge a PC/Person without knowing their whole story. Yes, it sucks if they interfere with your personal adventure, I've been both victim and culprit to this scenario. And I've apologised where I can, lessen the 'impact' as best as possible, and either join, or be on seperate ways.
But, i agree with previous posters, most of the reason these encounters occur is primarily due to OOC mechanics of the game, which deliver the Person shorter term gratification.

I'd like to offer an idea...

What is the point of DnD? This is what I thought:

1 Create Character
2 Find friends.
3 Kill monsters in a team work fashion, building a story for oneself and interacting with others.
4 Earn XP
5 Earn loot
6 Tell stories around the tavern of exploits.
7 End adventure for one night.
Repeat again next night from Step 2.

The characters we have made are REQUIRED to advance in experience and levels.
If not... Who are they?

We should have a whole sub category of classes to RP normal people in the world that don't go adventuring...BUT... could earn XP in another fashion.
Baker
Fisher
Smith
Brewer
Medic
Farmer
Animal herder
Warehouse dock supervisor
.. etc etc... you see where i'm going with this.

All the support roles effectively.

This directly ties in with the whole idea of custom crafting on the server.
I remember there was a crafting module for NWN1, allowed crop plantation, milking cows, gathering crops, gathering fruit from trees, baking goodies, brewing better goodies, mining varieties of ore, smelting ore, tinkering with bits and bobs related to vegetable and mineral products, smithing arms and armor, brewing potions, scribing scrolls... the list goes on.
That was a FANTASTIC module and added a whole new flavour to the RP experience on the server.
I'm pretty sure it took ALOT of work to implement and manage. But, it completed the server and the RP experience. I also think it was a custom module content that was premade available on nwnarchive.
I'm not sure if such a thing is available for nWN2.

But if it was...

It would solve ALOT of the issues we are seeing here.
Bored upper levels.
Stuck lower levels.

There's 30mins from my 60 min available block
/ 2 cents.

[ZestyDragon]

Then just put a cap on them and don't add higher level ones. The main point of that suggestion was to get higher levels out of lower level dungeons.

Problem solved.

[Tekill]

I dont agree on increasing exp per kill. Too easy- the main reason mmo's all suck.
You can make the quests monthly instead of weekly. I betcha this has been recommended before, and it might create a good balance.

And I agree about capping the chests. Chest grinding is very of unrealisic. Think about what these players are doing. Routinely searching the same areas, over and over again, waiting for the magic chest faeries to fill the chests so that the chests can then be farmed. Just silly.

[Cowbot]

Why is RP xp capped? I thought the server would want to encourage more RP, and this is an incentive for the opposite.

Serious question. Is it because we're afraid people will use scripts to automate talking to one another, in a similar way to how fishing bots have been used to AFK grind via fishing?