NWN2 Online, rebuilt in Unreal 4 Engine? (thoughts)

[DM Lobo]

I have several people who are willing to help me throw together a NeverWinter Nights 3 (basically BG remade with updated graphics and less glitches!) in the Unreal 4 engine. I would like to keep everything pretty much the same (feats, level up system etc...) with only a few minor changes to the UI.

It'll be a big project spanning several years and I would like to know your thoughts on this? There is a lot of pre-written code that can be used (brought) as well as several props/weapons etc... costing roughly £3,000 but will save a lot of time making 3D models / textures. On the pro side:

- We will have a brand new game based on NWN2 with updated graphics, effects, bigger maps etc...
- It'll bring in a brand new community giving us a huge boost in activty.
- Much more stable allowing us to shed most of the restrictions currently in NWN2
- The freedom to customize the assets / engine / code at will

On the other hand

- Good chance this will divide the community here
- NWN2 could become redundent, along with all the hard work put into the server
- I have always admired the 'retro' feeling of NWN2, and enjoyed been part of such an old game and part of its histroy. It would be a shame to turn our backs on that.
- Server hosting may become more expensive
- New engine and code, huge learning curve for modders

[Aspect of Sorrow]

I have several people who are willing to help me throw together a NeverWinter Nights 3 (basically BG remade with updated graphics and less glitches!) in the Unreal 4 engine. I would like to keep everything pretty much the same (feats, level up system etc...) with only a few minor changes to the UI.

This is a pretty ambitious project, with a hurdle that seems unanswered for: a protected intellectual property license that you don't own on an unsanctioned platform. You can go the GRUPs route with the open source license, but that would axe the setting in one fell swoop. I'll help you with this step, because there are a multitude of projects that come before you with smaller ambitions that were immediately issued C&D letters, who put the cart before the horse and spent a lot of money and time on a project that will not see the light of day. Not to be a debbie-downer, but the answer is a strong no by every means necessary from the IP holder unless it benefits them, not us in the modding scene grasping at straws from abandonware.

It'll be a big project spanning several years and I would like to know your thoughts on this? There is a lot of pre-written code that can be used (brought) as well as several props/weapons etc... costing roughly £3,000 but will save a lot of time making 3D models / textures. On the pro side:

As someone who helped in creating the asset chain of two major overhauls (D20Modern, SWC), I'd say your approximation is on the conservative side, and may need another tenths place unless you'll be content ripping from other sources, and run into other new legal issues since UE4 isn't treated as a 'modding' piece that NWN/NWN2 is.

- We will have a brand new game based on NWN2 with updated graphics, effects, bigger maps etc...

I think there's an amiss on the technical space of where most NWN and NWN2 players are. While NWN2 was demanding for it's time, not much has been done on the part of upgrade paths for players from this space. UE4's introduction can not only cost a person the financial requisite of this newer title, but also the hardware to power it.

- It'll bring in a brand new community giving us a huge boost in activty.

That's not a guarantee. NWN2's poor existence was lackluster in comparison to NWN1 for a myriad of reasons, introducing considerably better tech into the mixture wasn't as strong of a selling point that it needed. Extra features like four classes to multiclass into, the ADL, etc, didn't contribute to what one would think as NWN1 with new bells and whistles with community numbers to back it.

- Much more stable allowing us to shed most of the restrictions currently in NWN2

If you watch the development in larger multi user projects, new features continually bring on new weight of changes, tweaks, and additions to be made. There is no perfection reachable that isn't bettered by something else.

- The freedom to customize the assets / engine / code at will

Almost the entirety of the asset chain in NWN2 is enumerable. > 90% of the logic and behavior is also enumerable by default. ~95% of it or so enumerable via NWNX, and the CLR. Direct engine access would help, but it isn't everything.

On the other hand

- Good chance this will divide the community here

Which we won't sanction.

- NWN2 could become redundent, along with all the hard work put into the server

Especially as BGTSCC's future is looking very bright.

- I have always admired the 'retro' feeling of NWN2, and enjoyed been part of such an old game and part of its histroy. It would be a shame to turn our backs on that.
- Server hosting may become more expensive

Not sure why this would be more expensive, when we're already at the top echelon of hardware specs.

- New engine and code, huge learning curve for modders

There's ways to hook various transpiled languages to run compiled code inside a single proceses vm.


I wish the best for this were it to happen, but it has a lot of roadblocks.

A lot.

[chad878262]

Especially as BGTSCC's future is looking very bright.

+1 AoS... Fact is the server count is hitting 75/75 just about every day for several weeks now. As much as there is discussions about making it easier on new players, rebalancing x, y or z class, etc. the fact is that since I joined in September, 2014 I have NEVER seen a population like this. We have a great DM staff and fantastic Dev's, Area Designers and an ever expanding Media Team that is doing amazing work (and very quickly!)

Not sure what the point would be to throw money at resources that very well might never see the light of day when our server is improving every week with constant updates going in that are not only adding content, but also improving stability over time. I'd say our best bet is to put the support in to keep moving things forward and work together to keep this thing going all the way through the Time of Troubles and beyond!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

The thing that screams the loudest is how an engine is treated as a saving grace. The man hours spent in emulating something that already exists is better spent on fixing what remains needing fixed.

Not a single word was said about our work at Xoreos, nor the soon featured rewritten NWNServer process, but just the shiny new trinkets like Unity and UE instead. If this project were to sustain though it's chances of litigation, it would have an uphill battle over the NWN2 rewrite projects already long underway, protected under the modding spectrum of the existing NWN2 title, in it's abandonware state. I'm even building a web based toolset that has evidences of it's existence littered throughout the forums (one of it's exports seen in the staff forums under the NPC race conflict thread).

[metaquad4]

Another thing to consider, is to use Shards Online's platform and develop a D&D server on it. I'm sure its going to be done regardless, due to the developer's (and a fair few of the player's) history with nwn and it being part of Shard's inspiration (it and Ultima Online). Though, I'd only do this once Shards is out of alpha (and preferably, out of beta too). Shards has the potential to allow its persistant worlds to be customized any way the creator of the server sees fit.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Though, I'd only do this once Shards is out of alpha (and preferably, out of beta too). Shards has the potential to allow its persistant worlds to be customized any way the creator of the server sees fit.

I've got my eye on it, but leery of the marketing hype.

[Lockonnow]

how much better? and what can this game give us? horse rider ? jump? first person/combat and fly combat on a dragon /others winger beast,climb walls ,trees? swimming the game sould be fun

[Face]

You guys think we wil ever get a elder scrolls game where all you matrix people can build a BG server on?
Cous that would be the shit

[DM Lobo]

Just to be clear, I'm not speaking on behalf of the DM team, this is an idea that I and a few friends have been debaiting for a while.

Nothing has offically taken place, I just wanted your views on the topic. The Unreal 4 engine will allow us to do bigger and better things compared to the NWN2 engine such as; flying, horse riding (as stated), swimming, ship / boat / sailing mecahnics etc... etc...

The biggest issue (as AOS has pointed out) is getting the green light to use the license. Projects like this are not new; and I happen to know a few developers who have successfully re-made games with the unreal engine, for example Renegade X



£3000 is a bit heavy handed, but would cover a lot of the assets we could buy in to save a lot of time in development (I checked) including medievil sword pack (3D Models with textures) for roughly $100 containing over 100 weapon models. A chat system (similar to NWN2) and a basic character creation (similar to Skyrim) can be brought as a base for roughly $300. Several pre-made maps can also be brought (if needed) which would allow us to build a foundation to improve on.

AOS is right, this new 'game' will not guarantee a bigger community -- but if we can get this game for free (with an open source license) on steam, it should give the community a huge boost if NWN2 BG is mentioned in the credits. AOS also points out another good point: System specs - NWN2 is a low spec game, thus a lot of people can play it. Unreal 4 is a modern engine with much higher specs thus not everyone would be able to play it.

I'm going to put up a poll, thanks for your feedback on this guys.

[Juramenta]

Why think small, go VR!

-

Neverwinter with upgraded graphics would look cool indeed.
I can definitely understand it not being a easy undertaking.
So the idea is to completely rebuild this server in the Unreal 4 engine or is the plan to start something completely new?

[DM Lobo]

Why think small, go VR!

-

Neverwinter with upgraded graphics would look cool indeed.
I can definitely understand it not being a easy undertaking.
So the idea is to completely rebuild this server in the Unreal 4 engine or is the plan to start something completely new?

It would mainly consist of NWN2 online mode with a few maps to pick from + the DM system, I would also like to ship it with a map editor, item editor for modders -- not a huge project 2 years is more than enough to get this done; but I would have to ask for permission to use the licence material (as AOS has pointed out) Ideally I would like to keep it as modder friendly as possible so the community can add their on scrips and ideas to their servers.

It is important though to consider the damage this might do to BG in NWN2, and the NWN2 community as a whole.

[Lockonnow]

but think this i will have love more if people have build modes from the old games like ps2 baldur's gate dark alliance 1 and 2 demon stone icewind dale 1 heart of winter and 2 pc baldur's gate 1 and 2 and 3 and eye of beholder 1 ,2 and 3 and pool of radiance,Curse of the Azure Bonds,Secret of the Silver Blades,pool of darkness and pool of radiance 2 ruins of myth drannor,Gateway to the Savage Frontier,treasure of the Savage Frontier,,Menzoberranzan,descent to undermountain and many others it will have been like star wars when he GL remake them the story will have been the same

[dedude]

I think you offended the server with this suggestion. Please go tell it you still love NWN2 so it will play with us again.

Edit: and it's back!

[aaron22]

How about using the forgelight 2 engine. It is a sandbox style and is supposed to enable an ai that can adapt. I'm not super techie, but I was reading about this and it seems really novel.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

The biggest issue (as AOS has pointed out) is getting the green light to use the license. Projects like this are not new; and I happen to know a few developers who have successfully re-made games with the unreal engine, for example Renegade X

Consider Beamdog, who is lead by a former Bioware project head and developer who worked on NWN1, having difficulty scoring the ability to even reimage the NWN series. It's an uphill fight, just make sure you secure that license first before making the effort and risk litigation.

WotC is also still raking in cash from it's Neverwinter MMO, an IP it will see this thing contending with, and without the same financial consideration in their pockets. Unless you can convince them on this front, it's going to be a pretty strong exercise in futility.

Let's say you do secure the ability to work on this project. Why do you believe it would only be a two year timeframe? Do you have any project examples from the others who have contributed on something tangible?