Rask wrote:I think really, it's worth just putting up a poll for a month and letting people vote. Stick it to the top, see if peopel want mobs to leave more XP or not.
chad878262 wrote:Probably deserves it's own topic, go ahead and start one to see what the results are... Can't hurt!
I imagine most people want more XP...
Since a poll was suggested, a poll has been made. I tried to leave many view points open for votes. Discussion of the topic is also of course warmly encouraged.
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."
Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."
I am of the opinion that the server does offer ample XP opportunity but not in a form that is suitable for everyone.
What does that mean?
It means that one can get in roughly 2-4 hours on the surface 8500 XP per week on top of any XP that one gets doing their normal thing if they can indeed log in for more than 2-4 hours a week.....This is IMHO plenty of XP weekly for a PC to get that aids the lower XP rate of the monsters of the server.
Now this is the quests.....It is no secret I am one of the soulless. Those that have quested their soul away for levels in the Epics time and again through RCR and L2P mistakes. Now I still do them for one PC at a time but it is IMHO worse than the Nine Hells.
What I propose is this. Take the XP that is given for quests and wipe it out. KABOOM! GOOD BYE QUESTIN WEEKLY FOR A LEVEL! Keep the quests as a learn the server mechanic and as a gold mine weekly for players. Just do not have them award any XP what so ever. Instead you implement a different style of awarding that XP that still has the players needing to put in time and or risk to earn their levels same as before.
Instead give each PC a weekly XP pool of approximately 8500 XP that doubles XP awarded from every XP award that is ticked off until that 8500 XP is depleted for the week. So a player can campfire RP, Fish RP and or Adventure/Grind RP for their XP. This has the added bonus of letting the player choose how they get that instead of making them run around not really RPing for the most part. This is not to say that players do not RP the quests but the good majority do not and use it as a OOC leveling tool.
The same could go for the UD as well. Especially the UD where one is dependent entirely in the mid to high epics on that weekly quest XP to gain levels.
I really do think this is a good thing for the server and no one loses here. Those that like quests keep them but also get that XP anyway they can same as everyone else and those that do not like them do not have to do them to get that XP either. It just takes that XP the server is already giving to level and award other means of XP weekly and allows the player to gain it doing anything on the server.
What say you BG?
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
Calodan wrote:I am of the opinion that the server does offer ample XP opportunity but not in a form that is suitable for everyone.
What does that mean?
It means that one can get in roughly 2-4 hours on the surface 8500 XP per week on top of any XP that one gets doing their normal thing if they can indeed log in for more than 2-4 hours a week.....This is IMHO plenty of XP weekly for a PC to get that aids the lower XP rate of the monsters of the server.
Now this is the quests.....It is no secret I am one of the soulless. Those that have quested their soul away for levels in the Epics time and again through RCR and L2P mistakes. Now I still do them for one PC at a time but it is IMHO worse than the Nine Hells.
What I propose is this. Take the XP that is given for quests and wipe it out. KABOOM! GOOD BYE QUESTIN WEEKLY FOR A LEVEL! Keep the quests as a learn the server mechanic and as a gold mine weekly for players. Just do not have them award any XP what so ever. Instead you implement a different style of awarding that XP that still has the players needing to put in time and or risk to earn their levels same as before.
Instead give each PC a weekly XP pool of approximately 8500 XP that doubles XP awarded from every XP award that is ticked off until that 8500 XP is depleted for the week. So a player can campfire RP, Fish RP and or Adventure/Grind RP for their XP. This has the added bonus of letting the player choose how they get that instead of making them run around not really RPing for the most part. This is not to say that players do not RP the quests but the good majority do not and use it as a OOC leveling tool.
The same could go for the UD as well. Especially the UD where one is dependent entirely in the mid to high epics on that weekly quest XP to gain levels.
I really do think this is a good thing for the server and no one loses here. Those that like quests keep them but also get that XP anyway they can same as everyone else and those that do not like them do not have to do them to get that XP either. It just takes that XP the server is already giving to level and award other means of XP weekly and allows the player to gain it doing anything on the server.
What say you BG?
This is a great point for sure. Part of the reason the crawl to gain levels feels so much like a chore is that it simply isn't fun. It feels like an actual chore that you have to do to progress your character to be able to take on new adventures.
How many of us here go off and grind while watching a TV show? I know I do. It isn't engaging or exciting at all. I'd rather be able to RP and explore and worry a lot less about this particular chore. But the rewards just aren't there.
As for a "double XP pool" it sounds great on paper, aiding those of us that don't have tons of free time, while not boosting the hardcore grinders too much. Buuut... Mechanically, and engine wise, is this even possible to implement? I doubt it...
Rennec Rokranon, Chosen of Helm, Retired for now
Isra Wynterborne, Necromancer Hunter
Rask, The Lich, Retired
S.Ravenpath, collector and author of tall tales.
Nathka Blacksand - Khazark of the Enclave
Richter Bedevere - The Reveler and enjoyer of fine wines
Calodan wrote:I am of the opinion that the server does offer ample XP opportunity but not in a form that is suitable for everyone.
What does that mean?
It means that one can get in roughly 2-4 hours on the surface 8500 XP per week on top of any XP that one gets doing their normal thing if they can indeed log in for more than 2-4 hours a week.....This is IMHO plenty of XP weekly for a PC to get that aids the lower XP rate of the monsters of the server.
Now this is the quests.....It is no secret I am one of the soulless. Those that have quested their soul away for levels in the Epics time and again through RCR and L2P mistakes. Now I still do them for one PC at a time but it is IMHO worse than the Nine Hells.
What I propose is this. Take the XP that is given for quests and wipe it out. KABOOM! GOOD BYE QUESTIN WEEKLY FOR A LEVEL! Keep the quests as a learn the server mechanic and as a gold mine weekly for players. Just do not have them award any XP what so ever. Instead you implement a different style of awarding that XP that still has the players needing to put in time and or risk to earn their levels same as before.
Instead give each PC a weekly XP pool of approximately 8500 XP that doubles XP awarded from every XP award that is ticked off until that 8500 XP is depleted for the week. So a player can campfire RP, Fish RP and or Adventure/Grind RP for their XP. This has the added bonus of letting the player choose how they get that instead of making them run around not really RPing for the most part. This is not to say that players do not RP the quests but the good majority do not and use it as a OOC leveling tool.
The same could go for the UD as well. Especially the UD where one is dependent entirely in the mid to high epics on that weekly quest XP to gain levels.
I really do think this is a good thing for the server and no one loses here. Those that like quests keep them but also get that XP anyway they can same as everyone else and those that do not like them do not have to do them to get that XP either. It just takes that XP the server is already giving to level and award other means of XP weekly and allows the player to gain it doing anything on the server.
What say you BG?
This is a great point for sure. Part of the reason the crawl to gain levels feels so much like a chore is that it simply isn't fun. It feels like an actual chore that you have to do to progress your character to be able to take on new adventures.
How many of us here go off and grind while watching a TV show? I know I do. It isn't engaging or exciting at all. I'd rather be able to RP and explore and worry a lot less about this particular chore. But the rewards just aren't there.
As for a "double XP pool" it sounds great on paper, aiding those of us that don't have tons of free time, while not boosting the hardcore grinders too much. Buuut... Mechanically, and engine wise, is this even possible to implement? I doubt it...
YES IT CAN BE DONE! Realms of Darkness had a weekly XP pool that ticked off exactly that until the XP was gone! It was the best thing ever to be honest. So yes this can be done and implemented. This does nothing to increase a grinders level of leveling. We grinders already lost our souls and continue to do the quests. I would stop of course but it does allow me to play more PCs one per day for only a few hours instead of leaving them shelved.
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
When killing an Epic Black Dragon gives the XP of returning a house key to two halflings... maybe then we can start worrying about non-roleplay in epic area content.
Until that day, it's utterly and completely absurd that running eggs, lumps of ore, giant dung, and packages grants more rewards in XP than supposedly epic achievements in epic area content.
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."
Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."
I used to think like Calodan, but in the spirit of supporting all different types of play I think it best to allow questing for xp. Just have it draw from the same pool. This way you can gain weekly bonus xp on quests, by killing monsters, rp, fishing...whatever you enjoy. XP pool remains the same, but you earn it doing whatever you would do anyway. This would also serve to normalize xp gain a little between the surface and under dark as an added bonus.
This argument can be drilled into the ground to the point that localvault is introduced and instant 30s are handed out and still not satiate the underscoring issues present from both the module and the playerbase.
I need an official 'this is an attempt to fix a symptom and not the problem' band-aid image made.
It doesn't have to be considered as some kind of Dichotomy. It's not like we have to have 1xp monsters on one side, and Localvault instant 30 on the other. There is a massive world of inbetween, with many many many stopping points.
Simply saying an increase in XP of any kind would lead to certain DOOM isn't an arguement. At best it's a position that assumes a false dichotomy.
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."
Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."
Neither expressed nor implied, the point completely missed. The module is better off with a top to bottom reassessment of how better to cater to XP gain than just an increase of mob XP, something that has a considerably lower priority to things like quests, where once that element is considered then worry about the balance of the mob XP gain. The grind should be a side dish, not the main course. Additional storytelling arcs, extra gameplay features for the skills involved, things pertinent to lore. It's not that the XP on creature kills shouldn't be discussed, it's just not something soluble in the present tense and only skews in opinion because there aren't faster XP gaining alternatives.
The module needs to be able to sell itself on more than "grind to 30 and wait for DM events then."
If that's the case, a good start would be to determine the average number of game play hours expected before reaching level 30. From there, it's simple math to equalize the various XP gaining systems to take the same total time.
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."
Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."
I am not going to lie, the idea of a "ticker" being added so you slowly gain XP as you play is pretty cool. Put that in on top of the XP we already gain from stuff and leveling suddenly becomes easier, and grinding isn't necessarily going to be a priority for those people who don't have enough free time to make progression and RP at the same time. Hardcore grinders are going to leap to 30 no matter what we do. Penalizing people who have less free time in life because of them is not so great.
I would spend far more time hanging out and RPing rather than feeling that I have to spend x amount of my limited game time grinding if I was gaining more XP just by hanging around in taverns and camp fires.
Rennec Rokranon, Chosen of Helm, Retired for now
Isra Wynterborne, Necromancer Hunter
Rask, The Lich, Retired
S.Ravenpath, collector and author of tall tales.
Nathka Blacksand - Khazark of the Enclave
Richter Bedevere - The Reveler and enjoyer of fine wines
To what end ? Are we all in a rush suddenly? What happens at level 30 that I'm unaware of? What is the purpose and reasoning behind the proposed changes?
Draviir - Luskanite mercenary and trader of exquisite goods. Quinath Nar - Monastic warrior from Waterdeep
